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Thread: Why didn't Indo Europeans dominate Scandinavia with R haplogroup?

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    Veteran Member Senpai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaison View Post
    Perhaps, IE invaders relied on goat, ox herding and agricultural more. Scandinavia may not be so suitable for these and this may be why Hunter Gatherer y dnas didn't go extinct. I always thought hunter gathering makes societies more robust by natural selection during hunting. Meanwhile, agriculturalism makes more gracile and neotenous due to lack of selection.
    This makes some sense.

    Aren't Germanic languages estimated to be the most influenced by Hunter Gatherers Western IE language? This would also make sense in that case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Out of Germanics / Jews / Mongoloids, I would say that Jews have the best values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai View Post
    It doesn't explain how Scandinavia's IE admixture is so high. Unless I'm just missing something here.
    The population in Scandinavia was very low. Just mixing by marriages could heavily influence their DNA. There was trade between CWC and Scandinavia. People liked each other, so they mixed freely with each other.

    How many people live in Scandinavia nowadays?

    Sweden: 10 million
    Norway: 5 million

    In total 15 million with all those non-Scandinavian immigrants from Southern Europe and the Middle East.


    4000 years ago the population in Scandinavia would be just a few thousand. So even little mixing with IEan from CWC would change their DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    R1 in Finland is low.
    Finland is not Indo-European, but Finno-Ugrian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai View Post
    This makes some sense.

    Aren't Germanic languages estimated to be the most influenced by Hunter Gatherers Western IE language? This would also make sense in that case.
    I read smth like that before. It may be true. Thing I wonder if those ancient populations had vastly different phenotypes and they placed divergent on plots. This would mean everyone is mutt in someway except some Sardinians.

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    Default Why didn't Indo Europeans dominate Scandinavia with R haplogroup?

    Why do Finnish and North Swedish plot closest to CWC then? Is it because of EHG admixture in both?


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    Veteran Member Senpai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaison View Post
    I read smth like that before. It may be true. Thing I wonder if those ancient populations had vastly different phenotypes and they placed divergent on plots. This would mean everyone is mutt in someway except some Sardinians.
    They definitely could have. I think we're still 20 years behind being able to answer questions like that without much doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Out of Germanics / Jews / Mongoloids, I would say that Jews have the best values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daos777 View Post
    Why do Finnish and Swedish plot closest to CWC then?


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    I heard Finland had the highest IE admixture of all. Very odd that it wouldn't be higher there as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Out of Germanics / Jews / Mongoloids, I would say that Jews have the best values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai View Post
    I heard Finland had the highest IE admixture of all. Very odd that it wouldn't be higher there as well.
    I think it’s because Early Indo-Europeans and Finnish both have high EHG admixture and probably not because Finnish people are direct descendants of IE.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai View Post
    I heard Finland had the highest IE admixture of all. Very odd that it wouldn't be higher there as well.
    Finns don't have high IE as they are mostly HG. They are mostly ydna N1C. Some populations can look like they have inflated IE if you don't use the correct components.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senpai View Post
    I heard Finland had the highest IE admixture of all. Very odd that it wouldn't be higher there as well.
    proto-Finno-Ugrian people were already EHG people.

    Yamnaya was for about 55% EHG. CWC had around the same amount of EHG. So, we cant say for sure that EHG in Fins is from the ancient IEans. EHG in Finns is much older and was in Finno-Ugrian people even before IEans.

    Finns don't have much IEan Yamnaya DNA, since they have not that much of IEan CHG. Scandinavian IEans have much more CHG than Finns.

    CHG in Europe is the best IEan indicator

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