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Thread: Why Forgotten Portugal was one of the Most CRUCIAL Countries in WW2

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    Default Why Forgotten Portugal was one of the Most CRUCIAL Countries in WW2




    While remaining neutral in the Second World War, Portugal helped the Allies out just a little more than they did Axis, and without Portugal's passive contributions the Allies, especially Britain and US, the war might've played out quite a bit differently.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Interesting. This is the sort of history that isn't taught because it isn't sensational but it's important.
    Also, I heard that the battle prowes of the Blue Division made Hitler pause his plans to invade the peninsula. Is there any truth to this?

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    Portugal was a useful and strategic trading point for both sides in the War. The government must've made a lot of money out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    [C


    While remaining neutral in the Second World War, Portugal helped the Allies out just a little more than they did Axis, and without Portugal's passive contributions the Allies, especially Britain and US, the war might've played out quite a bit differently.
    I´ve read a joke in the comments of this video:

    Popular portuguese joke regarding our country in WW2:
    "Churchill sends a message to Salazar asking: So, are you guys gonna help us or what?
    Salazar messages back with a single word: "BALLS!"
    A diplomatic scandal insues and the Portuguese ambassador is summoned to Churchill´s presence:
    - Is your Prime Minister insulting us?????
    - No Sir! - answers the ambassador - that is a coded message...
    - Coded? What does it mean???
    - It means... we will collaborate and do our part, but we will not enter!"
    I´am sure that Salazar governement was a mediator between Franco and allies to get Spain to do the same from the middle of the war.

    As the Jesuits says: "repartir los huevos en dos cestas" (divide the eggs into two baskets), Spain was more hypocrite in that issue, because at least, Portugal had traditionally had an historical connection with British Islands.

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    Portugal was also a "nest" of spies from all over the world and warring states who would meet in a peaceful nation to share intelligence. Although Portugal at the time had very few luxury hotels fit for kings and queens, a good part of European royalty stayed here. Most would be at Estoril, a renowned beach destination (which, as I said, had a high-level hotel where you would find a surreal situation of all European royalty crowding a single dining room). The Estoril Casino actually set 007's inspiration. Hotel Avenida Palace in central Lisbon was one of Portugal's most luxurious hotels and became famous for its spy tales, secret passages and things.

    On another perspective, Lisbon was the last stop for war refugees from all over Europe waiting on a plane or ship bound to America. Refugees who left everything behind to get a seat on a ship or plane, Portugal was already rumored to be in the sight of German bombers. Still, at the time, Lisbon was a comparatively small city than in Europe. Foreigners and refugees of all kinds suddenly crowded downtown streets and cafes, but apparently to the relative indifference of the people.

    One thing that fascinated European refugees staying in Lisbon was the Christmas nighttime illumination, something they were obviously not used to seeing from a attacked, blackouted European bomber.

    One interesting story is that of one Italian, Luca Giovanni, who wanted to go to America, but found that Lisbon had no Ice Cream shops! He was apparently pleased enough to settle and open the first Ice-cream shop in Lisbon (right at the corner of Hotel Avenida Palace). I will thank this guy for bringing ice-cream. and One last thing, during the Second World War, that Portugal celebrated 800 years of history, so Salazar decided to arrange a big exhibition in honor of all Portuguese achievements, from its founding to the Discoveries and Colonization, in a simple nationalistic speech, intended to impress. While it's grandiose, "the world looked at the events over Britain and the Eastern Front." Antoine de Saint-Éxuperie, the popular French aviator and author of "Little Prince," described Lisbon as, I think, a "surrealist, sad paradise."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post



    While remaining neutral in the Second World War, Portugal helped the Allies out just a little more than they did Axis, and without Portugal's passive contributions the Allies, especially Britain and US, the war might've played out quite a bit differently.
    Portugal's most important aspect was their contribution to the intelligence community and allowing spies from all countries into Portugal. Portugal was a hub for spies from all nations which helped the allies the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildofMud View Post
    Interesting. This is the sort of history that isn't taught because it isn't sensational but it's important.
    Also, I heard that the battle prowes of the Blue Division made Hitler pause his plans to invade the peninsula. Is there any truth to this?
    I don't know if it had anything to do with the Blue Division to be honest but I doubt. Probably the invasion didn't take place merely because the Nazi forces were already too concentrated in the invasion of the Soviet Union and couldn't afford to split their forces to concentrate in another region. What I do know is that had they eventually invaded Spain, their main goal was to capture Gibraltar. They were willing to conquer Spain just to get hold of this strategic base in the Mediterranean sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Portugal was a useful and strategic trading point for both sides in the War. The government must've made a lot of money out of it.
    It was golden era for the Portuguese finances. Our gold reserve is still one of the most important in the world and a substantial amount of it was acquired during this period.

    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    I´am sure that Salazar governement was a mediator between Franco and allies to get Spain to do the same from the middle of the war.

    As the Jesuits says: "repartir los huevos en dos cestas" (divide the eggs into two baskets), Spain was more hypocrite in that issue, because at least, Portugal had traditionally had an historical connection with British Islands.
    Salazar was a strategist. He mostly favored the Spanish nationalist cause out of fear of a communist invasion of Portugal, yet he was uneasy at the prospect of a Spanish government bolstered by strong ties with the Nazis. Salazar disliked the Nazi regime in Germany and its imperial ambitions, he was tempered only by his view of the German Reich as a bastion against the spread of communism rather than an allied nation.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by Iberians View Post
    Portugal was also a "nest" of spies from all over the world and warring states who would meet in a peaceful nation to share intelligence. Although Portugal at the time had very few luxury hotels fit for kings and queens, a good part of European royalty stayed here. Most would be at Estoril, a renowned beach destination (which, as I said, had a high-level hotel where you would find a surreal situation of all European royalty crowding a single dining room). The Estoril Casino actually set 007's inspiration. Hotel Avenida Palace in central Lisbon was one of Portugal's most luxurious hotels and became famous for its spy tales, secret passages and things.

    On another perspective, Lisbon was the last stop for war refugees from all over Europe waiting on a plane or ship bound to America. Refugees who left everything behind to get a seat on a ship or plane, Portugal was already rumored to be in the sight of German bombers. Still, at the time, Lisbon was a comparatively small city than in Europe. Foreigners and refugees of all kinds suddenly crowded downtown streets and cafes, but apparently to the relative indifference of the people.

    One thing that fascinated European refugees staying in Lisbon was the Christmas nighttime illumination, something they were obviously not used to seeing from a attacked, blackouted European bomber.

    One interesting story is that of one Italian, Luca Giovanni, who wanted to go to America, but found that Lisbon had no Ice Cream shops! He was apparently pleased enough to settle and open the first Ice-cream shop in Lisbon (right at the corner of Hotel Avenida Palace). I will thank this guy for bringing ice-cream. and One last thing, during the Second World War, that Portugal celebrated 800 years of history, so Salazar decided to arrange a big exhibition in honor of all Portuguese achievements, from its founding to the Discoveries and Colonization, in a simple nationalistic speech, intended to impress. While it's grandiose, "the world looked at the events over Britain and the Eastern Front." Antoine de Saint-Éxuperie, the popular French aviator and author of "Little Prince," described Lisbon as, I think, a "surrealist, sad paradise."
    I have lived more than 20 years in Cascais, where Estoril is located. A significant portion of the Spanish royalty, including their Kings used to live here as refugees. The ice-cream shop you are talking about I believe it is Santini. It was also one of the favorite ice-cream shops of the Spanish royalty, even today if you visit it (it still exists and it is operating) there is on their wall several photos of King Juan Carlos and his family enjoying some ice-cream in there.

    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas View Post
    Salazar was a strategist. He mostly favored the Spanish nationalist cause out of fear of a communist invasion of Portugal, yet he was uneasy at the prospect of a Spanish government bolstered by strong ties with the Nazis. Salazar disliked the Nazi regime in Germany and its imperial ambitions, he was tempered only by his view of the German Reich as a bastion against the spread of communism rather than an allied nation.
    Franco himself neither was he a fascist"stricto sensu", ideologically Salazar and franco were quite similar. You know, something difuse called "nacional-catolicismo". Franco actually was a pragmatic person.

    They had different personalities of course, and different background, Salazar had better academic education and Franco was only a soldier.

    And both countries situation was ,at that moment very different also, politically and financially.

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