Your opinions on bullfighting?

[Samnium]

I prefer events like horse races (that exist all over Europe but more popular in France, UK and a bit in Italy) that don't hurt like that animals.

Fieras de Pampluna are litterally a "zoo" where bulls are thrown in the streets of Pampluna, there are many injured people every year, a very dumb idea to participate in that. (If I want to be a bit cynical I can say : natural selection)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Yes it's a pro bullfight website but that doesn't make what it's written there are lies.

The tax issue isn't addressed in this anti bullfighting website: http://basta.pt/perguntas-frequentes/

5. As touradas geram muito dinheiro?
Não. O ponto alto do negócio tauromáquico foi nos anos 80. Atualmente já existem cavaleiros e grupos de forcados que pagam para participar em touradas, e vários “agentes” da festa brava admitem publicamente que apenas se dedicam a este negócio por “paixão” porque ele não gera lucro. Se as touradas fossem um negócio muito lucrativo não precisavam do apoio e dos subsídios atribuídos pela Câmaras Municipais que, em alguns casos, compram milhares de bilhetes para oferecer à população, como forma de garantir a presença de público nas praças e a viabilidade do espectáculo.

As for an hypotethical referemdum, you can see some results here:



So judging by that, a referendum isn't looking too good for a possible ban. You also shouldn't underestimate its popularity in other regions, like the Azores for example.

11. A maioria dos portugueses gosta de touradas?
Existe uma sondagem realizada pela Eurosondagem em 2011 que, supostamente, diz que muitos portugueses são a favor das touradas, no entanto, a sondagem não é muito clara. É importante esclarecer que a referida sondagem se refere a “actividades com toiros” tendo sido respondida na sua maioria por pessoas favoráveis à questão tauromáquica. Os que se opõe foram excluídos na primeira pergunta.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Sorry but it has not been debunked. To begin with, it is aired mostly on RTP which is a public broadcast payed by our taxes. Bullfighters say that there are no subsidies but there are plenty of sources that indicate otherwise. Who is telling the truth? From 2010 to 2019, the number of bullfighting events has been reduced by almost half. It is a bit naive to believe that the people who live off from this industry are able to support themselves only with tickets to the shows.

There was subisidies of 1 million euros between 2013-17 given by certain municipalities, that was a subject already covered by specialised newspapers such Jornal de Negócios etc. No need to go to pro or against bullfight sources.
The receipt they generate for those municipalities far surpasses those subsidies, don't forget they are often related to local "festas" wich are touristic events important for the local economies and business.

Anyway I am against that bullfight might cost money to the tax payers, for me those "entertainement" activities should all generate their own revenue or close the doors, that goes for bullfights, football, experimental theatrical plays or whatever. But if they are subsidised with the intention of making a finantial return and a positive impact on the local economy then I understand because it's more an investment.

Abortion is something completely unrelated and a completely different topic. It's a strange comparison. And whether you are for it or not (which is another debate), it was approved by the Portuguese people through a referendum. There was never a referendum on bullfighting and if there was, something tells me it would be banned. The regions that are traditionally pro-Bullfighting are mostly areas largely depopulated (Alentejo for example) and would most likely have little expression in a hypothetical referendum.

I think it is important to relate because it puts in perspective the vision we have for the society, our moral values and priorities. I don't think that given the context making a crusade against bullfights is important when there are much more relevant matters that attempt against human rights. I think that unless there is strong medical reasons putting at risk the life of the mother or malformation of the fetus, every baby has the right to be born.

If people want to vote on a referendum that they want the death penalty back that doesn't make it right or a civilizational advance, altough surely violent criminals deserve way more to be killed than inoccent babies.

Regarding the regions, I guess hunting for sport is popular in the north, is it not superfluous nowadays and could be considered as animal violence ? Next we could have a referendum about hunting and recreational fishing as well...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

There was subisidies of 1 million euros between 2013-17 given by certain municipalities, that was a subject already covered by specialised newspapers such Jornal de Negócios etc. No need to go to pro or against bullfight sources.
The receipt they generate for those municipalities far surpasses those subsidies, don't forget they are often related to local "festas" wich are touristic events important for the local economies and business.

Anyway I am against that bullfight might cost money to the tax payers, for me those "entertainement" activities should all generate their own revenue or close the doors, that goes for bullfights, football, experimental theatrical plays or whatever. But if they are subsidised with the intention of making a finantial return and a positive impact on the local economy then I understand because it's more an investment.

Problem is, they do not generate revenue as you are saying. Bullfighters are the first to admit that they do this out of passion rather than money because there is barely any money or revenue in bullfights nowadays. Some bullfighting riders and groups of forcados publicly admit that they pay to bullfight.

I think it is important to relate because it puts in perspective the vision we have for the society, our moral values and priorities. I don't think that given the context making a crusade against bullfights is important when there are much more relevant matters that attempt against human rights. I think that unless there is strong medical reasons putting at risk the life of the mother or malformation of the fetus, every baby has the right to be born.

If people want to vote on a referendum that they want the death penalty back that doesn't make it right or a civilizational advance, altough surely violent criminals deserve way more to be killed than inoccent babies.

Regarding the regions, I guess hunting for sport is popular in the north, is it not superfluous nowadays and could be considered as animal violence ? Next we could have a referendum about hunting and recreational fishing as well...

I think it is completely deviating from the topic because the question was to give your opinion regarding bullfighting, which I did. At no time did I say anything that could indicate my level of "priority" on bullfights over other topics. That is something that you are trying to imply in others with simplistic rhetoric: "look at this guy who is against bullfighting instead of being worried about abortion." There are hundreds of other problems that I could be worried about too, but that doesn't mean I can not hold a negative opinion regarding bullfights.

Plus, I am not in favor of a "crusade" against bullfighting neither I attend protests against it. I even clarified that even though I voted "it should be banned" on the poll, it is really not necessary to enforce a ban because I believe that is a decaying tradition that will likely end within my life-time, since it has been decreasing in its number of spectators.

[Duffmannn]

I like bullfighting and attend often the events.

[Rocinante]

There should be a general referendum, people should vote to see what they think, and i bet my ass this would be ban, like it should, sorry for the people that like this, but the reality is that us an old, boring and barbaric fest.

[Ion Basescul]

Absolutely barbaric. It would have been acceptable if they somehow managed to kill the bulls in one blow, because at the end of the day they will still be eaten. But making them suffer and bleed out is primitive.

[Damião de Góis]

5. As touradas geram muito dinheiro?
Não. O ponto alto do negócio tauromáquico foi nos anos 80. Atualmente já existem cavaleiros e grupos de forcados que pagam para participar em touradas, e vários “agentes” da festa brava admitem publicamente que apenas se dedicam a este negócio por “paixão” porque ele não gera lucro. Se as touradas fossem um negócio muito lucrativo não precisavam do apoio e dos subsídios atribuídos pela Câmaras Municipais que, em alguns casos, compram milhares de bilhetes para oferecer à população, como forma de garantir a presença de público nas praças e a viabilidade do espectáculo.

I'm still looking for the section of the Ministry of Culture that describes how bullfighting is funded via taxes. In fact the current minister of culture is openly anti bullfighting.
So i'm a bit skeptical that your taxes are funding the one bullfight that RTP airs each year.

11. A maioria dos portugueses gosta de touradas?
Existe uma sondagem realizada pela Eurosondagem em 2011 que, supostamente, diz que muitos portugueses são a favor das touradas, no entanto, a sondagem não é muito clara. É importante esclarecer que a referida sondagem se refere a “actividades com toiros” tendo sido respondida na sua maioria por pessoas favoráveis à questão tauromáquica. Os que se opõe foram excluídos na primeira pergunta.

I see basta.pt likes to twist information.

The data is very clear and can be acessed here:

https://issuu.com/protoiro/docs/esto...otoiro_marco11

The question is very clear, and only 11% answered that they were against. The rest of the questions are irrelevant and concern bullfight specifications so it's no wonder that those who responded against didn't participated in the rest of the questions:




These are the people that participated, people from all over the country of all sexes and ages:

[Ford]

I find the culture and 'myth' so to speak as quite fascinating. But I don't really think much of the act itself.

[Ford]

Double