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Thread: Sredny Stog culture was not Indo-European

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    Veteran Member Creoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eline View Post
    Sredny Stog culture was not a Kurgan culture. IEans in the steppes were associated with the kurgans. Also, there is clearly a huge migration detected from Yamnaya into Europe.
    Not in Y-DNA there isn't.


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    What do you mean? Most people in my country belong to R1b. Even your Y-DNA is R1b. There was also R1b in Yamnaya.

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    They probably influenced IE, also i think they built some groundwork for early IE.

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    In the Neolithic time there was a mutual geneflow between Sredny Stog and pre-(non)-IEan Yamnaya and there was a huge geneflow from Yamnaya after it was Indo-Europeanised. Yamnaya just 'kurganized' the late Sredny Stog culture.

    It is possible that pre-IEan people from Yamnaya influeced LATE PIEan dialect. That's why there was already a difference between proto-Anatolia and late-IEan Yamnaya dialect. Late IEan Yamnaya dialect was influenced by the Uralic EHG people. There are many studies about that influence.

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    Veteran Member Creoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eline View Post
    What do you mean? Most people in my country belong to R1b. Even your Y-DNA is R1b. There was also R1b in Yamnaya.
    Wrong subclade. Yamnaya samples so far are all R1b-Z2103, few Europeans are descended from that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Wrong subclade. Yamnaya samples so far are all R1b-Z2103, few Europeans are descended from that.
    Yes, but most Europeans came from CWC and BBC at the first place. They didn't came directly from Yamnaya.

    CWC was like for about 70% Yamnaya like after Yamnaya expansion, right?


    There was either Anatolian Farming hypothesis or Kurgan Steppe hypothesis.

    If Sredny Stog was IEan before Yamnaya, then Anatolian Farming hypothesis


    But all evidence go toward the Kurgan hypothesis (combination of Steppe/CHG hypothesis).

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    double post

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    Veteran Member Daos777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eline View Post
    Supported by those who can't live with the fact that Yamnaya was just a late PIEan culture full of West Asian DNA and Indo-Europeanized by people from the south. And that proto-Anatolian (ancestral to the Hittites) was older than Yamnaya.

    It is a pathetic, ridiculous and laughable way of thinking. Why?

    Sredny Stog culture was not a Kurgan culture. IEans in the steppes were associated with the kurgans. Also, there is clearly a huge migration detected from Yamnaya into Europe.

    Sredny Stog culture was full of EEF or ANF. If Sredny Stog was Indo-European then Colin Renfrew was right and Europe was Indo-Europeanised by the Anatolian Farmers. Sure, the Anatolian Farmers from West Asia heavily changed the DNA in Europe. But I think we have enough evidence that LATE proto-Indo-European kurgan culture Yamnaya came later and had also a major genetic influence on Europe!


    So, my point is that if Sredny Stog was Indo-European, which I'm sure it was absolutely not the case, then it was Indo-Europeanised by the Anatolian Farmers!
    Autosomal genetics have determined that the statement above is a lie. Srendy stog is almost identical to Yamnaya
    autosomally with minor EEF input. West Asian dna? You mean CHG?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daos777 View Post
    Autosomal genetics have determined that the statement above is a lie. Srendy stog is almost identical to Yamnaya
    autosomally with minor EEF input. West Asian dna? You mean CHG?
    What is a lie?

    Srendy Stog was similar to the pre-Indo-European/pre-kurgan Yamnaya. Before Yamnaya was Indo-Europeanized it was actually pretty related to Srendy Stog. There was a mutual geneflow between Srendy Stog and non-IEan pre-Kurgan Yamnaya Horizon. Like I said earlier, see post #14. Later after Yamnaya Horizon was IEanized and got kurgans from copper age CHG people, it got much more CHG/Iran_Chl like DNA than Srendy Stog.

    Yes, West Asiatic CHG, but not CHG of 10000 years ago, but CHG of 6000 years ago. Similar to Iran-ChL.


    Srendy Stog had a lot more EEF/ANF, around 20%, maybe much more, I have to see other results. While Late Indo-Europeanized 'Kurgan'-culture Yamnaya had much more copper age CHG/Iran-Chl.
    Last edited by Eline; 05-05-2020 at 07:53 PM.

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    The fact is that first there were no 'Kurgans' in Sredny Stog and pre-Indo-Europeanized Yamnaya. Later we see kurgans arriving together with the CHG/Iran_Chl in Yamnaya and from there it was spread into the western parts of the Black Sea.

    Kurgans + advanced metallurgy in Yamnaya and much later in Sredny Stog came from West Asia/Caucasus.

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