Would Euros look phenotypically different today if they were still pred or 100% WHG?

[Daos777]

This 10,000 BC map is rather interesting. If I recall correctly the southeastern European HGs had influence from EHGs and within Europe, the height peaked in Ukraine, which, in the areas covered on the European 10,000 BC map represents the most EHG-like zone. On the other hand, HGs from France (and to some extent even 7500 BC Germany) were a bit short in comparison to other European HGs, these guys probably also had Magdalenian ancestry (Goyet type). EHG influence = taller than mesolithic WHG, Magdalenian influence = shorter than mesolithic WHG. Magdalenian = Dwarf, EHG = Elf?

Yeah 10,000 bc map is interesting because it shows that Iberomaurusians were tall as well.

[irompald]

Do you know if cm and australoid have a conexion? Because I always look at Australoid people and think that they have some similarities

[Daos777]

Yeah, Iberomaurusians were rather big as well. The average (assuming male) cranial capacity was just over 1600cc, something like 1662cc on average.

Interesting. How does that compare to average WHG cranial capacity?


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[aherne]

Very much so: everyone would be CM. Today Neolithic and Aryan derived elements dominate everywhere in Europe, except North (Scandinavia, Baltic countries, Finland, Urals). As for the famous "reconstruction", it doesn't seem very realistic, nor do (some) geneticists' opinion they were dark skinned and dark haired. If so, how come CMs in Europe or even North Africa tend to be brown haired and lighter skinned than Neolithic-inspired elements (Meds, Alpines, etc)?

Same for Aryans: geneticists claim Yamnaya people were darker than average, then how come people derived from them in historical times (just two thousands years later) were predominantly blond (see Scythians or Tocharians)?

[L.o.l.i.t.a]

They found actually Baltic HG who were light skinned, who were fully WHG and did not have any EHG in them, so it is possible. + if we would be 100 % WHG we would propably be taller, as AF were smaller than them. They also intermixed with Neanderthals which made them smaller in height as well

The Baltico was already populated by light-skinned EHG. Who had fair skin EHG and not WHG. Mixed hunters and gatherers from northeastern Europe only had fair skin because the EHG had fair skin, brown eyes and a somewhat Mongolized phenotype. The EHG obtained clear skin by contact with the CHG. The fair skin spread to Anatolia, the Middle East and Northeast Europe, but it came up with the CHG people of Georgia.

[L.o.l.i.t.a]

Very much so: everyone would be CM. Today Neolithic and Aryan derived elements dominate everywhere in Europe, except North (Scandinavia, Baltic countries, Finland, Urals). As for the famous "reconstruction", it doesn't seem very realistic, nor do (some) geneticists' opinion they were dark skinned and dark haired. If so, how come CMs in Europe or even North Africa tend to be brown haired and lighter skinned than Neolithic-inspired elements (Meds, Alpines, etc)?

Same for Aryans: geneticists claim Yamnaya people were darker than average, then how come people derived from them in historical times (just two thousands years later) were predominantly blond (see Scythians or Tocharians)?

"Aryans" is a completely incorrect term to describe the ancestry of the steppes in Europeans.

[L.o.l.i.t.a]

This.

The overwhelming majority of the ANE people had dark skin, eyes and hair. The blonde mutation in Afontora Gora was EXCEPTION and was far from being a rule. Different mutations for blond hair have appeared in different places. The people of the steppe were not mostly blond and had fair skin, brown eyes and hair via CHG. Probably only about 30% of the steppe people had some kind of blondness and there are articles about it.

The Eurogenes blog has the alleles of the boy from Malta and he had dark alleles in skin, hair and eyes.

[Immanenz]

The Baltico was already populated by light-skinned EHG. Who had fair skin EHG and not WHG. Mixed hunters and gatherers from northeastern Europe only had fair skin because the EHG had fair skin, brown eyes and a somewhat Mongolized phenotype. The EHG obtained clear skin by contact with the CHG. The fair skin spread to Anatolia, the Middle East and Northeast Europe, but it came up with the CHG people of Georgia.

20% EHG is not afwul a lot. SHG was 50-50 and had light skin. I also dont think EHG was necessary mongolized, its basically like saying French/Basque Alpines are Mongols because they are brachy and can have hooded eyes.

[L3mon J3lly]

The overwhelming majority of the ANE people had dark skin, eyes and hair. The blonde mutation in Afontora Gora was EXCEPTION and was far from being a rule. Different mutations for blond hair have appeared in different places. The people of the steppe were not mostly blond and had fair skin, brown eyes and hair via CHG. Probably only about 30% of the steppe people had some kind of blondness and there are articles about it.

The Eurogenes blog has the alleles of the boy from Malta and he had dark alleles in skin, hair and eyes.

You have no clue what you're talking about. ANE were predominantly blond and light skinned:


https://books.google.com/books?id=Nj6FDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA96

The fusion of these highly different populations into today’s West Eurasians is vividly evident in what might be considered the classic northern European look: blue eyes, light skin, and blond hair. Analysis of ancient DNA data shows that western European hunter-gatherers around eight thousand years ago had blue eyes but dark skin and dark hair, a combination that is rare today.33 The first farmers of Europe mostly had light skin but dark hair and brown eyes—thus light skin in Europe largely owes its origins to migrating farmers.34 The earliest known example of the classic European blond hair mutation is in an Ancient North Eurasian from the Lake Baikal region of eastern Siberia from seventeen thousand years ago.35 The hundreds of millions of copies of this mutation in central and western Europe today likely derive from a massive migration into the region of people bearing Ancient North Eurasian ancestry.36

CHG had dark skin, hair and eyes. ANE + the steppe EHG were light haired and light skinned. The ANE who mixed with CHG got darkened, not lightened.


Of course, Malta-1 had dark hair. But that's only because blond hair hadn't evolved by that time.

[L3mon J3lly]

I do not believe this. I have seen pigmentation results which give EHGs lighter skin than CHG. I also don't think there was much of a contact between CHG and EHG. There might be some Anatolian-like Dzudzuana in EHG though, but even with that, I think the A2 light skin variant would have likely originated in EHG itself. EHG were fair skinned and dark to light (blond) haired. Later EHG like Samara had blue eyes while earlier EHG like Sidelkino were dark eyed (Sidelkino also happened to be likely light blond haired).

She has no idea what she is talking about. Of course CHG were darker than EHG and ANE (in every regard).