Kurds: Rank from closer to further

[FinalFlash]

Still having a hard time deciding which methods and calculators are the more 'correct' ones. Whatever new tool you guys are using seems completely different to the g25/vahaduo tools as far as admixture and oracles are concerned.

[Eline]

Basing it off similar ratios of neolithic components such as Anatolian Farmer, CHG, Iran_N, EHG, and so forth which I indicated in the previous pages.

These ratios are the most important and then after that more modern admixtures come into play. Kurds and Assyrians may not have direct ancestry with one another but through whatever coincidence of history they ended up with similar proportions of those above components. That's more important than a more recent link that accounts for who knows how much shared ancestry between any two groups.

I hope this makes sense...

Of course it makes sense.

But compared to the Assyrians, Kurds have much more Iran_ChL (CHG) and Iran_NEO.

On the other side, Assyrians as Semitic people have much more Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture.


But it is true that Assyrians have also some Anatolian and some Iran_ChL (CHG)/Iran_NEO admixutre, but of course more of Anatolian_NEO that makes them closer to the Armenians.

And Kurds have also a lot ANF + some Natufian, but also much more ANF than Levant. Kurds don't have a lot Assyrian direct Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture. Most of Levant_NEO admixture is from ANF source.


Once again, Assyrians are much more related to the Armenians and they cluster closer to the Armenians than to Kurds.

[Zoro]

How come there aren't any academic papers that show the Baloch/Brahuis that close to Kurds relative to Armenians/Assyrians? Besides you, I've yet to see Kurds shown to be closer to the former than to the latter. Since you claim academics don't use G25 but use your method, then we should be able to see them coming to the same conclusions as you.

Even though ancient ancestry is important, you can't just ignore recent ancestry and all the genetic drift that's happened. If we ignore genetic drift, then maybe your values could make sense.

Well, I have yet to see any paper modelling the relationship between Kurds and Baloch/Brahui using formal stats. Obviously, linguistically Baloch are much much closer to Kurds than to Armenians or Assyrians.

As far as recent admixture you can see hints of it too even with the simplistic ADMIXTURE based calculators. For example in Dodecad K12 have you ever thought about why Kurds score 27 or 28% Gedrosian when the groups right next to them including Armenians and Assyrians only score 15% or so Gedrosian. I mean shouldn't Kurds also score 15% or less Gedrosian just like Armenians and Assyrians if they are not much more related to Baloch or Brahui.

Then you have the linguistics, you remember when you wrote that Kurdish sounds more similar to Pashto, and even there are many Kurdish-Pashto similar words not even found in Farsi. Same applies to Kurdish-Balochi. Nevermind Pashto/Balochi-Assyrian/Armenian. This only makes sense if the connection between Kurds and Pashtuns/Baloch is much stronger than the connection between Assyrians/Armenians and Pashtuns/Baloch


Kurds are documented in Balochistan but not Assyrians or Armenians

[FinalFlash]

Of course it makes sense.

But compared to the Assyrians, Kurds have much more Iran_ChL (CHG) and Iran_NEO.

On the other side, Assyrians as Semitic people have much more Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture.


But it is true that Assyrians have also some Anatolian and some Iran_ChL (CHG)/Iran_NEO admixutre, but of course more of Anatolian_NEO that makes them closer to the Armenians.

And Kurds have also a lot ANF + some Natufian, but also much more ANF than Levant. Kurds don't have a lot Assyrian direct Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture. Most of Levant_NEO admixture is from ANF source.


Once again, Assyrians are much more related to the Armenians and they cluster closer to the Armenians than to Kurds.

Assyrians are much more related to Kurdish and Iranian Jews than to either one. Overall, I think they show as much genetic affinity to Kurds as they do to Armenians. Remember, Assyrians have a lot of Iran_N(more than Armenians).

[Zoro]

Of course it makes sense.

But compared to the Assyrians, Kurds have much more Iran_ChL (CHG) and Iran_NEO.

On the other side, Assyrians as Semitic people have much more Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture.


But it is true that Assyrians have also some Anatolian and some Iran_ChL (CHG)/Iran_NEO admixutre, but of course more of Anatolian_NEO that makes them closer to the Armenians.

And Kurds have also a lot ANF + some Natufian, but also much more ANF than Levant. Kurds don't have a lot Assyrian direct Levant_NEO/Natufian admixture. Most of Levant_NEO admixture is from ANF source.


Once again, Assyrians are much more related to the Armenians and they cluster closer to the Armenians than to Kurds.

Yes and also don't forget the higher steppe admixture and R1a in Kurds vs Armenians and Assyrians

[Eline]

Pashtuns have higher ASI than Baloch, more steppe, and a bit less ANF(I believe).

Yes, and that makes the Western shifted Baluchis of Iran less ASI, less Steppe and more ANF.

That makes Baluchis more shifted toward West Asia and therefore closer to the Persians and even the Kurds.

Baluchis are somewhere between West Asia and SouthCentral Asia.


So at the end what Zoro is saying makes some sence, that the most Western shifted Baluchis (who speak a West Iranian language) are closer to the Persians than the Eastern Iranics (such as Pashtuns) are. Although I don't agree with him that they are closest 'relatives' of the Western Iranians.

The closest relatives of the Western Iranians are other NorthWest Asiatic people.

[Eline]

Assyrians are much more related to Kurdish and Iranian Jews than to either one. Overall, I think they show as much genetic affinity to Kurds as they do to Armenians. Remember, Assyrians have a lot of Iran_N(more than Armenians).

Kurdish Jews and Iranian Jews are Semitic speaking people.

On Assyrian DODECAD K12b Armenians are higher in hierarchy than the Kurds are. Assyrians and Armenians are more related to each other and a lot of time even overlapping each other's cluster.

[FinalFlash]

Kurdish Jews and Iranian Jews are Semitic speaking people.

On DODECAD K12b Armenians are higher in hierarchy than the Kurds are. Assyrians and Armenians are more related to each other and a lot of time even overlapping each other’s cluster

On Vahaduo, Assyrians have more Iran_N admixture hence why Kurds are closer to Assyrians than you may think. Remember Kurds are more Levantine/Anatolian shifted compared to other Iranic speakers hence greater affinity to Assyrians vs other Iranics.

[Mingle]

Well, I have yet to see any paper modelling the relationship between Kurds and Baloch/Brahui using formal stats. Obviously, linguistically Baloch are much much closer to Kurds than to Armenians or Assyrians.

So basically we should trust you on this but ignore all academics, G25, GEDmatch, etc.

As far as recent admixture you can see hints of it too even with the simplistic ADMIXTURE based calculators. For example in Dodecad K12 have you ever thought about why Kurds score 27 or 28% Gedrosian when the groups right next to them including Armenians and Assyrians only score 15% or so Gedrosian. I mean shouldn't Kurds also score 15% or less Gedrosian just like Armenians and Assyrians if they are not much more related to Baloch or Brahui.

Then you have the linguistics, you remember when you wrote that Kurdish sounds more similar to Pashto, and even there are many Kurdish-Pashto similar words not even found in Farsi. Same applies to Kurdish-Balochi. Nevermind Pashto/Balochi-Assyrian/Armenian. This only makes sense if the connection between Kurds and Pashtuns/Baloch is much stronger than the connection between Assyrians/Armenians and Pashtuns/Baloch


Kurds are documented in Balochistan but not Assyrians or Armenians

Geography/history plays a bigger role in ancestry than language.

[Zoro]

Yes, and that makes the Western shifted Baluchis of Iran less ASI, less Steppe and more ANF.

That makes Baluchis more shifted toward West Asia and therefore closer to the Persians and even the Kurds.

Baluchis are somewhere between West Asia and SouthCentral Asia.


So at the end what Zoro is saying makes some sence, that the most Western shifted Baluchis (who speak a West Iranian language) are closer to the Persians than the Eastern Iranics (such as Pashtuns) are. Although I don't agree with him that they are closest 'relatives' of the Western Iranians.

The closest relatives of the Western Iranians are other NorthWest Asiatic people.

Let the table guide you. Let's pretend for now that Kurdish is not the closest language to Balochi and also let's pretend that Baloch/Brahui tribes and Kurd presence in Balochistan is nothing but science fiction

QpWave – Test, Kurd-Kurmanji-Iraq Cladiness Check – Rank 0
SAMPLE	CHI SQ	P-value	SNPs USED
.Kurds_Feyli_IQ	4.73	0.981	90184
.Kurd_Kurmanji	6.61	0.921	303019
Iranian.DG	6.73	0.916	279965
.Kurd_Yazidi	8.03	0.842	247231
.Iranian_NW	10.09	0.687	182540
.Kurd_Sorani	10.25	0.673	248590
Adygei.DG	17.83	0.164	281434
Lezgin.DG	18.84	0.128	282336
.Baloch_IR	19.65	0.104	188079
Chechen.DG	21.51	0.063	379199
Brahui.DG	21.69	0.060	279141
Armenian.DG	22.25	0.052	282186
Greek.DG	27.02	0.012	282225
Jew_Iraqi.DG	28.13	0.009	281309
Georgian.DG	28.24	0.008	281674
Cretan.DG	28.51	0.008	281398
.Assyrians	28.67	0.007	186187
Russia_NOssetian.DG	30.88	0.004	280617
Bulgarian	33.62	0.001	280566
Druze.DG	35.79	0.001	282786
Balochi.DG	41.60	0.000	280097
.Pashtun_Afg	42.45	0.000	182127
Polish.DG	53.19	0.000	376550
Basque.DG	66.30	0.000	280394
Sardinian.DG	68.97	0.000	232474
Kalash.DG	69.77	0.000	283488
Sindhi.DG	72.71	0.000	278658
BedouinB.DG	91.63	0.000	284854
Estonian.DG	92.70	0.000	278977
Finnish_1000G	132.82	0.000	81992
Bashkir.DG	151.11	0.000	243901
Saami.DG	166.78	0.000	278445
Turkmen.DG	223.08	0.000	385491
Gujarati_1000G	269.19	0.000	80458
Irula.DG	310.61	0.000	275351
Kazakh.DG	477.04	0.000	243031
Buryat.SG	806.49	0.000	373197
Kyrgyz_Kyrgyzstan.DG	807.67	0.000	222557
Yakut.DG	944.80	0.000	275842
Burmese.DG	962.59	0.000	272387
Somali.DG	1,006.77	0.000	355138
Mongola.DG	1,107.77	0.000	275062
Dai.DG	1,243.92	0.000	200559
Chinese_Han_1000G	1,653.02	0.000	101885
Bougainville.DG	1,869.35	0.000	283417
Esan.DG	2,680.72	0.000	251172