Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 41 to 50 of 50

Thread: A Genetic Compendium of an Island: Documenting Continuity and Change across Irish Human Prehistory

  1. #41
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Ancestry
    Ireland
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Posts
    17,454
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,097
    Given: 28,473

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Eurogenes post linked here if anyone wants to read it.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/0...change-in.html

  2. #42
    Dinkum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Creoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celtic Australian
    Ancestry
    English & Irish Midlands. Gaels, Anglo-Saxons & Britons.
    Country
    Australia
    Region
    Victoria
    Y-DNA
    R1b-DF109
    mtDNA
    K1a10
    Politics
    Diversity is our greatest weakness
    Hero
    Those who made a better world
    Gender
    Posts
    11,824
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 13,849
    Given: 6,536

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    The Irish are almost certainly majority descended from Early Bronze Age Irish/British (quite comfortably), but I still think the continental Celtic + Germanic admixture since that point is fairly significant.

  3. #43
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Ancestry
    Ireland
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Posts
    17,454
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,097
    Given: 28,473

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    The Irish are almost certainly majority descended from Early Bronze Age Irish/British (quite comfortably), but I still think the continental Celtic + Germanic admixture since that point is fairly significant.
    With the way this embargo stuff is going what's the chance of getting a good study from Cassidy on the later periods i.e. late Bronze up to Late Medieval? Apparently it is mostly likely to do with unpublished studies from what Generalismmo is saying. So that's the only positive I can take that there are some studies coming out.

  4. #44
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Last Online
    12-30-2023 @ 01:53 AM
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian
    Country
    Sweden
    Gender
    Posts
    2,883
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,672
    Given: 882

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    I'm puzzled by the "Bedouin-like" component that pops up in modern day Europeans, even in France, Germany and Britain. She argues that it's related to Roman admixture which might be true but earlier in the paper she mentions this

    Strikingly, while a gradual increase in European hunter-gatherer ancestry (red) can be seen through time in the Hungarian Middle and Late Neolithic, this is not mirrored in Linearbandkeramik (LBK) populations who expanded further North via the Danubian route. Instead these culturally homogenous groups, show minor components of ancestry present in West Asia at the time (coloured teal and beige). These west Asian components also appear as larger minority contributions in the Greek Late Neolithic and to a lesser extent in Hungarians. In contrast, the earliest Spanish Neolithic individual, descended from populations who followed a Mediterranean route of expansion, is devoid of these smaller ancestries, presenting a majority early European farmer genome in orange, with marked European hunter-gatherer introgression. Overall, this heterogeneity suggest persistent contacts with West Asia after the initial colonisation of the Balkans, as well as differential interactions with local hunter-gatherer populations among Neolithic groups in Europe
    It's very plausible that this West Asian shift actually made its way to Northern/Western Europe through Central European farmers, probably indirectly via La Tene/Hallstatt. And in the case of Britain probably due to conact with the continent much later on during the modern era.

  5. #45
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Ancestry
    Ireland
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Posts
    17,454
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,097
    Given: 28,473

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aren View Post
    I'm puzzled by the "Bedouin-like" component that pops up in modern day Europeans, even in France, Germany and Britain. She argues that it's related to Roman admixture which might be true but earlier in the paper she mentions this



    It's very plausible that this West Asian shift actually made its way to Northern/Western Europe through Central European farmers, probably indirectly via La Tene/Hallstatt. And in the case of Britain probably due to conact with the continent much later on during the modern era.
    Just putting that paragraph here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Possible echoes of the Roman Empire here. Bedouin component present from Italy and the Balkans. Also present in France, Germany and was seen in Britain but absent by the Medieval period. Ireland bypassed as well as Scandinavia and also not seen in the Basque.
    By modern times (Fig. 1.2E), a fourth component of ancestry (beige), found at highest levels in Bedouin populations, has left an impact on European populations, particularly those of Italy and the Balkans. This is most likely an effect of the Mediterranean civilisations that dominated the regions for many centuries, culminating in the Roman empire (27 BC – 395 AD), which saw much of the continent subsumed into this growing hegemony. Indeed, this component penetrates the more isolated northern regions to some degree, including France and Germany. Despite its absence in Medieval individuals, the component is also seen in Britain, where it decreases in scale from Southern England to Scotland. Ireland is bypassed almost entirely, as in Scandinavia. Intriguingly, in Iberia this component is also close to absent in the linguistically divergent Basque region, in sharp contrast to neighbouring populations.
    But why is it not in Irish, Scandinavians and Basque? That's why it is intriguing and she specifically mentions a "Bedouin" component not West Asian.

    Wouldn't those populations you mentioned have had some impact on Irish, Basque and Scandinavians also?

    Edit: Bedouin component not seen in Medieval individuals and reading it again it looks like she is saying this component is in today's populations but not in Irish, Scandinavian and Basque.
    Last edited by Grace O'Malley; 05-25-2020 at 04:04 AM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    https://irishgenomics.blogspot.com/2...sland.html?m=0

    For anyone who is interested in downloading or reading the paper in case other links get taken down.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Last Online
    12-30-2023 @ 01:53 AM
    Ethnicity
    Assyrian
    Country
    Sweden
    Gender
    Posts
    2,883
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,672
    Given: 882

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Just putting that paragraph here.





    But why is it not in Irish, Scandinavians and Basque? That's why it is intriguing and she specifically mentions a "Bedouin" component not West Asian.

    Wouldn't those populations you mentioned have had some impact on Irish, Basque and Scandinavians also?

    Edit: Bedouin component not seen in Medieval individuals and reading it again it looks like she is saying this component is in today's populations but not in Irish, Scandinavian and Basque.
    I think David answered that to you on another forum, admixture runs are simply not that reliable.

    I'm not gonna look more into this it seems completely pointless.

  8. #48
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Ancestry
    Ireland
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Posts
    17,454
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,097
    Given: 28,473

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    It's largely an artifact of the ADMIXTURE method.

    What often happens is that the program creates clusters based on the most isolated/drifted populations, and then the other, more outbred groups are given membership in near and far related clusters to compensate for this problem.

    So you really have to check properly whether the appearance of some Middle Eastern or even South Asian admixture reflects recent gene flow. Remember that bullshit with Dienekes' Gedrosia cluster? Same thing.
    Very interesting and I think this applies to the commercial companies also.

  9. #49
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Daco Celtic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Vlach Irish
    Country
    United States
    Y-DNA
    E-V13 Dacian Mocani
    mtDNA
    V3 Viking Queen
    Gender
    Posts
    10,989
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 17,860
    Given: 18,268

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    "A 2,000 year delay occurred between the Mesolithic occupations of Britain and Ireland. Requirement of seafaring knowledge may have been the main hurdle for any new arrivals, though the island’s dense forest cover and impoverished array of post-glacial flora and fauna may not have encouraged permanent settlement (Woodman 2015). When Ireland was eventually colonised, it was most probably from a British source, with the earliest Irish stone toolkits, geometric microliths (Fig. 1.1C), broadly resembling those that emerged in the Britain during its Later Mesolithic period. An accidental colonisation event is unlikely, given the seemingly deliberate introduction of wild boar to the island at the time (Mallory 2013). A suggested origin of these immigrants is the now submerged landscape surrounding the current Isle of Man, visible from Ireland, where rising sea levels would have forced population relocations. Continued communication between new colonies and their flooding homelands may have been compromised, which could provide explanation for the lack of parallel development between the Irish Early Mesolithic and any contemporary British population (Mallory 2013), although outside contacts cannot be ruled out."

    Does anyone else agree with the Isle of Man origin for the first inhabitants of Ireland during the Mesolithic period? It quotes from Mallory 2013 but this is also mentioned in his 2018 reprint of Origins of the Irish so I assume it is the mainstream view. Isle of Mann, Scotland, and Wales have similar toolkits to Ireland from the era so all are probable origin locations.
    Last edited by Daco Celtic; 04-30-2021 at 02:07 AM.

  10. #50
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    tipirneni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Last Online
    03-26-2024 @ 12:19 AM
    Location
    Texas
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Asian
    Ethnicity
    Indian
    Ancestry
    Salkhit 625SNP, Otzi 803SNP, Mik15 798SNP, RISE493 1335SNP, I11456 1024SNP, I7718 980SNP, I9041 512S
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Texas
    Y-DNA
    H-M82 Z5890+Z34522+
    mtDNA
    U2a1a3*
    Taxonomy
    sub-brachycephalic+Atlanto-Mediterranean+Caucasus-Alpine
    Hero
    James Bond
    Religion
    Hindu
    Gender
    Posts
    2,651
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,455
    Given: 1,640

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    The Megalithic period seems to be connected with similar monuments all over the world in Malta, Italy, Egypt, India etc.. There is presence of I2a and H2a haplogroup. Even H1/3 were present in Wales probably will show up in Ireland in this period upon further digging. These show the Mesolithic and Neolithic people were connected to world wide movement not just some local variation until the arrival of R1b Steppe group.

    Cassidy showed these samples in the latest paper which I showed in another post
    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...t-Hindu-shrine
    Yfull [B]ID: YF83218 Medals -> https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-the-Deep-dive
    G25 Distance: 1.0778%
    86.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
    5.2 ITA_Sardinia_C_o:I15940 1.4 ITA_Daunian
    3.6 PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H
    3.6 VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA:VK464

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Biggest Change in Human History
    By wvwvw in forum News Articles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-07-2019, 01:32 PM
  2. (Thread deleted, wrong location)
    By elliotts21 in forum Anthropology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-22-2019, 05:26 PM
  3. Emirate of Crete and its genetic impact on the island
    By gültekin in forum Ελλάδα
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 01-14-2019, 07:53 AM
  4. The genetic prehistory of the greater Caucasus
    By Kelmendasi in forum DNA Scientific Papers
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-31-2018, 05:57 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-17-2018, 09:44 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •