A Genetic Compendium of an Island: Documenting Continuity and Change across Irish Human Prehistory

[Imperator Biff]

https://pdfhost.io/search?text=Lara%20Cassidy

Anyone who wishes to read the pdf can do so here.


Also, and it has to be said, fuck trinity college.

[Leto]

Just tell me guys — are the Irish really Bronze Age Celts?

[Jana]

Just tell me guys — are the Irish really Bronze Age Celts?

Celts migrated to British Isles in Iron Age as far as I know.

[Leto]

Celts migrated to British Isles in Iron Age as far as I know.

So they weren't the first Indo-Europeans over there?

[Jana]

So they weren't the first Indo-Europeans over there?

Exactly. Bell Beakers came before them and left biggest genetic imprint in Irish. I suppose they spoke arhaic NW Euro languages, something older than Celtic and Germanic.

[Grace O'Malley]

Fucking cunts rembargoed the thesis until 2023.


Are these people for real? What a pisstake. We’ve been waiting since 2017 for this.

You're joking. Does all this have to be deleted?

Just checked and it is now embargoed until 2023. How crazy is that?

[Grace O'Malley]

Anyway this conclusion by alan from Anthrogenica is very good. The big problem is missing samples from France and Britain when this thesis was published.

I saved it before it was embargoed :0) Its actually a very good read. Took me many hours to read it as im a sort of slow chewing it over as it goes reader who pauses for thought a lot. Only shame is it was written before that French data was available. Author was very cautious and didnt overextend in terms of conclusions. If the data wasnt available and no firm conclusions were possible, it was stated. Nevertheless I think her conclusions are right. Most interesting.

1. The Irish Mesolithic population probably came via Britain across the dry channel from a NW European Mesolithic microlithic groups (guess likely northern France or Low Countries) who probably derived from late palaeolithic groups around Switzerland who in turn derived mostly from western Gravettian roots (similar to Villabruna) not Magdellanian ones as usually presumed. It differs from both Iberian WHG and north-eastern WHG dominated groups. Author actually has a lot of v interesting things to say about this period.

2. The Irish farmers probably came from France where there was a melting pot between Cardial elements who came up to the Loire and LBK inputs who reached the Norman-Breton border. They were mixing for a long period prior to migration with the Cardial element apparently dominating genetically despite no cardial pottery in the north of France. The detail of this is still to be teased out because French data wasnt available. Seems to suggest (as archaeology does) that it mostly came from Britain although doesnt rule out the possibility that some came direct from NW France. Male lines similar to Mesolithic (as is true in the UK and France).

3. As expected it shows a big influx of steppe genes with the beaker and early bronze age. Total turnover of yDNA to P312 (almost all proven L21). There was for some time a difference between most of the island and the SW corner which retained more farmer DNA. Lack of samples from likely Irish beaker sources in Britain and northern France etc hampered working out actual percentage of displacement as the percentage of farmer in them was unknown. Seems to think at least a small percentage of the farmer was local but cannot be sure.

4. Modern genetic bedrock and yDNA largely set by the early bronze age but there is a little change towards British direction in the Iron Age and some individuals who probably migrated from there. Again, its impossible to work out how much continuity v migration when there is no comparable data from western Britain to work with. However, if there was a significant Iron Age incursion then it would have had to come from a population that was very like the existing Irish one. Problem is, it is strongly to be suspected that western seaboard populations in Iron Age Britain would have been very similar.

Basic lesson. Need a bigger sample and need to have big samples from Britain and France to progress further.

[Grace O'Malley]

Just tell me guys — are the Irish really Bronze Age Celts?

Basically Bronze Age Bell Beakers and highly likely some Celtic input at a later date. I'd say Northern France, Britain need to be studied to get all the pieces of the puzzle.

[Grace O'Malley]

As large amounts of text from the thesis are here and it has now been embargoed until 2023 does anyone know if this thread has to be deleted?

[Grace O'Malley]

Just tell me guys — are the Irish really Bronze Age Celts?

Someone on Eurogenes posted this. It's most likely very accurate.

So, a trickle from Hallstatt(indirectly), and a sprinkle of Viking, apart from that modern Irish are essentially Rathlin island. Love it.