The origin of E-V13 is north West Africa

[Adamm]

Is this one accurate?

[Halgurd]

E-V13 is NOT an African haplogroup. It has never been natively found outside Europe and the modern distribution outside Europe is usually related to IE populations with the exception mainly for Turks. I made the title of the thread wrong it was meant to be E-M78.

E-M78 is African overall though.

[Daos777]

Is this one accurate?

Dates are on the lower end of estimates but yeah overall pretty accurate. Where did you get this?


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[Halgurd]

Is this one accurate?

Why are the Egyptians representative of E-M35? Back then there was no such thing as an Egyptian. Egyptian civilisation began around 5,000 years ago and by then E-V13 was already natively established in Europe for thousands of years. This creates the wrong notion that clades downstream of E-M35 all came from Egypt.

I get the idea behind it (its prevalence in Egypt) but we have to remember that haplogroups are much older than any civilisation.

[Adamm]

Why are the Egyptians representative of E-M35? Back then there was no such thing as an Egyptian. Egyptian civilisation began around 5,000 years ago and by then E-V13 was already natively established in Europe for thousands of years. This creates the wrong notion that clades downstream of E-M35 all came from Egypt.

I get the idea behind it (its prevalence in Egypt) but we have to remember that haplogroups are much older than any civilisation.

I think the pic is just for illustration purpose and not necessarily 'Egyptian'.

[Halgurd]

E-V13 is associated with a few southern European and central European pottery cultures. These range from the Iberian peninsula to Greece which means the mutation could have happened anywhere around this area.

The oldest E-V13 as I mentioned has been found in north east Spain, followed by some samples around the Balkans. It is not clear exactly where the mutation took place but certainly in between these areas. Might have even occured in N. Africa or West Asia but again its not clear.

There is an E-M35 sample from Catal Hoyuk (West Anatolia) which correct me if im wrong has not been tested for any more clades downstream. If it turns out to be E-M78 then it could be a game changer as the mutation of E-V13 occurred around this time.

Furthermore TMRCA of all E-V13 lived around 2900BC. This era is associated with the Yamnaya culture mainly and the expansion of the IE languages.

[Mingle]

E-V13 is associated with a few southern European and central European pottery cultures. These range from the Iberian peninsula to Greece which means the mutation could have happened anywhere around this area.

The oldest E-V13 as I mentioned has been found in north east Spain, followed by some samples around the Balkans. It is not clear exactly where the mutation took place but certainly in between these areas. Might have even occured in N. Africa or West Asia but again its not clear.

There is an E-M35 sample from Catal Hoyuk (West Anatolia) which correct me if im wrong has not been tested for any more clades downstream. If it turns out to be E-M78 then it could be a game changer as the mutation of E-V13 occurred around this time.

Furthermore TMRCA of all E-V13 lived around 2900BC. This era is associated with the Yamnaya culture mainly and the expansion of the IE languages.

Do you know where the E-V13 among Kurds comes from?

[Halgurd]

Do you know where the E-V13 among Kurds comes from?

No one knows for sure.

Initially it was thought that it may have been due to Alexander the Great and the Greek invasions but this has no basis anymore because Kurdish (as well as other west Asian) E-V13 clades are slightly different.

1 Kurd who did his big y is E-CTS5856* (or E-CTS1273) negative for all downstream clades. E-CTS5856 is ancestral to most European E-V13. His ftdna ID is 536478.

It is the same clade that was found in the ‘Glinoe Scythian’ who has been dated to 4885-4632 ybp. The paper admittedly states that the dates for this sample may be inaccurate but if true, it means this particular individual was not a Scythian and was most likely associated with the Western Yamna culture. The dates of this sample coincide with the most recent common ancestor of all E-CTS1273 which I find very interesting.

In other words E-V13 in West Asia and the southern Caucasus in general may be the result of incursions of Eurasian nomads into the region.

We are constantly getting new information about E-V13 though so probably in a few years time things will be much clearer.

[JQP4545]

If E-V13 originated in Northwest Africa then why don't we find much Northwest African DNA in Greeks and Albanians?

[Adamm]

If E-V13 originated in Northwest Africa then why don't we find much Northwest African DNA in Greeks and Albanians?

Autosomal DNA can be out-bred within 6 generations (200 years), EM78 entered Europe thousands of years ago.