The origin of E-V13 is north West Africa

[Daos777]

Not sure if it can be ancestral to E-V13 but it’s defo e-M78.

https://cladefinder.yseq.net/interac...snps=PF2104%2B

“a dead-end lineage (xL618,V22,V12,V65), also very likely not a fully developed M78 since it's CTS4138- (i.e. pre-M78), so it certainly couldn't have been the ancestor of L618. On the other hand, Taforalt samples had ~75% derived SNPs at M78 level, so by the following calculation:

(M78 formation date - TMRCA date) x (percentage of derived SNPs) = 6700 years x 0,75 = 5025 years

they should have been separated from the hypothetical ancestor of all living M78 ~5000 years after the formation of the clade, i.e. ~13000 BC. The sampled Taforalt individuals are dated 13150-11950 BC, which places them in the right time frame to belong to the lineage very closely related to the one to which the actual ancestor of all living M78 belonged.

I'm not saying there's no chance L618 came to the Balkans via Levant and Anatolia (or even via Gibraltar as Bane suggested), I'm just saying it's highly unlikely it originated in the Levant among Natufians. However, currently available aDNA samples from the Middle East don't go in favour of such a path for L618, so I'm still sticking to my Capsian pet theory that L618 came to Europe from the territory of modern Tunisia via Sicily and South Italy in the Late Mesolithic/Early Neolithic.”

I don’t know how correct that post is but yeah it’s most likely wasn’t. Interesting though. First time I’ve seen something even close to E-M78 being found outside of NA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jana]

So how did E-V13 spread so rapidly in Europe, especially since it is rare to nonexistant in ancient samples we have so far. What is current most logical theory?

[Daos777]

So how did E-V13 spread so rapidly in Europe, especially since it is rare to nonexistant in ancient samples we have so far. What is current most logical theory?

Well E-V13 is spread equally in both R1b and R1a areas and they also exist in areas where Neolithic lineages didn’t survive. So it was assimilated by indo-Europeans, where exactly is the question (most likely globular amphora and cucuteni area) and brought everywhere indo-Europeans went. Or it was more widespread in Europe than current ancient samples prove.

[Jana]

Well E-V13 is spread equally in both R1b and R1a areas and they also exist in areas where Neolithic lineages didn’t survive. So it was assimilated by indo-Europeans, where exactly is the question (most likely globular amphora and cucuteni area) and brought everywhere indo-Europeans went. Or it was more widespread in Europe than current ancient samples prove.

Intresting, but Globural Amphora was I2a2 as far as I know. Cucuteni is more tricky, I think some G2a was found there but also some older E lineages.
You think sea people/pelasgian diffusion is out of question? I'm just curious.

[Daos777]

Intresting, but Globural Amphora was I2a2 as far as I know. Cucuteni is more tricky, I think some G2a was found there but also some older E lineages.
You think sea people/pelasgian diffusion is out of question? I'm just curious.

I don’t believe in sea people theory because how would E be found in Central Asia and parts of Sweden?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Halgurd]

I don’t believe in sea people theory because how would E be found in Central Asia and parts of Sweden?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Indo European theory is the only one that can explain this tbh

[Halgurd]

Just came across this paper and there is more ancients of interest in Spain. But they are quite young compared to the samples in post 1.

https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...blesS1-S5.xlsx

I4269 (2473-2030 calBCE) - E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1) (cultural affiliation - Bell Beaker)

I12031 (500-600 CE) - E1b1b1a1b1a

I10853 (989-1153 cal CE) - E1b1b1a1b1

I7498 (1000–1100 CE) - E1b1b1a1b1a (cultural affiliation - Muslim)

I7457 (1100–1300 CE) - E1b1b1a1b1a (cultural affiliation - Muslim)

[Halgurd]

E1b1b1a1b1 in Croatia (6400-5500 BCE)

I3948
mtDNA: N1a1
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi...3952212257&z=7

[Halgurd]

According to yfull, the most recent common ancestor of all E-V13 lived 4800 ybp.
The most recent common ancestor of all E-CTS1273 lived 4500 ybp.

These dates coincide with the “Glinoe Scythian” that is E-CTS1273 dated to 4885-4632 ybp. He was actually not a Scythian though, as he lived a couple thousand years before them. He coincides with the Yamnaya culture, which extended to the western shores of the Black Sea (where Glinoe is located) so it’s possible he belonged to them.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/

Most E-V13 clades seem to fall under E-CTS1273 according to yfull. I’m thinking, was there a genocide of some sort? Did the invading Indo Europeans kill off most of the non E-CTS1273 clades? If so would that mean that most E-V13 today would actually be direct descendants of the earliest Indo European culture?

A lot of speculation I know. But I can’t think of anything else that explains the lack of non E-CTS1273 clades and so far that clade has only been found in 1 ancient, and that is the “Glinoe Scythian.”

[Joso]

So how did E-V13 spread so rapidly in Europe, especially since it is rare to nonexistant in ancient samples we have so far. What is current most logical theory?

E-V13 is obviously related with neolithic and/or tropical/desert adaptated features.