Proto-Bulgar inscriptions vs Orkhon inscriptions

[-Invictus-]

When i posted chinese art? Nearly every non-pagan turkic state didnt used, except some cases, something which could be connected to orkhon relief.

Searched about that "relief" and here is what I found : http://www.miho.or.jp/booth/html/artcon/00000432.htm

"Said to have come from a tomb in northern China, these panels and gateposts originally stood on a rectangular coffin platform, now missing."

"3 These couches were created to support the remains of the deceased, and show a strong resemblance to Chinese domestic furniture, particularly to the formal sitting couch (chuang or kang) and the canopied bed (chazuchuang).4

During the fifth through seventh centuries burial practices in north and northwest China included the use of such couches as part of tomb furnishings. Tombs were often multichambered, recreating living quarters, and the funerary couch was placed in the back burial chamber, corresponding to the bedroom of the deceased. The two gateposts at the front of the couch refer to separate architectural forms, each with its own function. One is the chueh, a pair of high towers that mark the entrance to the burial site, the other, the towered entrance to a Chinese house."

Seems like that art looks pretty Chinese. Also the only resemblance to the Madara rider is that there is a horseman. On the other hand the Bulgar relief and Persian relief horses are almost in the same stance and both are made after a victory over a certain nation.

Please answer to the Brahmi - Bulgar rune similarities. Are they visible to Turks from Turkey/Russia/Germany or it's just my imagination?

You still didn't answer to this.

Edit- Read the posts of PAGANE in the last 2 pages. Turks answering with one sentence just spam the thread and bring 0 value. Read PAGANE's posts, look at the similarities I found between the Bulgar rosette and Brahmi, and then answer. Don't just talk for the sake of talking.

[PAGANE]

PROTO-BULGARIAN RUNIC INSCRIPTIONS The Numbers in the Proto-Bulgarian Inscriptions

At many places in Pliska, Madara and Preslav, as well as in the monasteries in Ravna near Provadia were discovered identical groups of characters:

The frequent use of these characters as well as the fact that they do not occur in strict sequences and are repeated several times in one and the same inscription points that they designate numbers. But, unfortunately, they could not be deciphered for a long time.
Some years ago, while studying the inscriptions from the territory of the former Kubrat Bulgaria, I came quite unexpectedly to absolutely same sequences of characters. As it turned out, this type of numbers was already in that area since earliest times - around the V-VI c. BC (see G. Turchaninov, Op. cit., Supplements). The Proto-Bulgarian characters depicted the numbers of one, ten, twenty and one hundred - i.e. the basic numbers, which were characteristic for many peoples.
Equipped with these important data, here is the reading of the various inscriptions of this type from the territory of our country,:


The interpretation is straightforward and almost all inscriptions were discovered on goods. Some of them were scratched on (already produced) dishes and amphorae - the inscriptions recorded the quantity of the manufactured articles of that type or marked their capacity. The remaining inscriptions come from clay bricks in Madara and on stone blocks, used in the buildings in Pliska. In these cases the characters obviously record the total number of clay bricks, which had been used for building a house or the quantity of the stone blocks, which had been made by a group of workers. The characters were written on the inner side of the blocks and were walled in later. Therefore they were written not after the completion of the building, but during the preparation of the building and in the course of its construction.

[PAGANE]

THE PROTO-BULGARIAN CALENDAR The Ancient Peoples of the East and the Arithmetic of the Proto-Bulgarians
The question to be answered now, after the numerical system of the Proto-Bulgarians was nearly clarified, is:
was there another ancient people that counted in a similar way. Regarding the names of the months, the Sumerian civilization has very interesting points of contact with the Proto-Bulgarian names. They refer, however, to individual isolated words, while in the Pamir the whole system was discovered, with specific endings EM and OM. But the problem is that there existed an older people, who had whole system. The examples listed in the table below are to clarify this difficult question.
Comparison of the names of the Months from the Nominalia and from the Pamirs

Proto-Bulgarian example	Pamirian and Dardic analogies	Precursors
ALEM (first)	ALAM, OLAM (first) - Ishkash., Chuf. ALEIN (frontal ) - Tal.	Accad. ALEN, Sanskr. ALAM (initial, highest)
TUTOM (second)	DU, TU (two); DUTA, DUDON (both) - Prasun	Sanskr. DU-TAMA; Pers. DUTOM (second)
CHITEM (third)	CHI, CHIT (three); CHIIEM, CHITEM (third) - Jazgul.	Old Pers. CHITIJA (third); CHITEAM (month May) - Irish
TVIREM (fourth)	ZFIR (four), ZFIREM (fourth)- Munj. TIJREMA (month July) -	Sanskr. TURIA, Avest. TURIA (tuyria), TUIRAM (fourth); TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECHEM (fifth)	VJUCH, VISH (five) - Prasun; PJUCH, PINCH - Saryk.	PENCHEM from PENDSHAMA - Sanskr. PENCHEMA (fifth) - Avest.
SHEHTEM (sixth)	SHEHT (six), SHEHEM (sixth)	SASTAMA (sixth) - Sanskr.
ALTEM (last, twelfth)	ALSAM - Vaynakh., ALD - Wakh.	ALSAM (rest, end) - Vaynakh, AILT (limit) - Celt.
ES (eight) (discovered in Murfatlar's inscriptions)	AZ (Torv.), AS (Bashk.), ASH, ASTE (Prasun), HESHT (Tal.)	ASHTAU - Sanskr.; ES (eth) - Celt., EIGHT - Engl.

Old Sanskrit or Avestan, and in some to cases Sumerian and Accadian words are behind almost all Proto-Bulgarian and Pamirian words. The Accadian ALEN, which was changed to ALAM in Sanskrit is, corresponds to our term ALEM. Our TUTOM corresponds to the Sanskrit DUTAMA and the reconstructed Persian DUTOM (which was formed in the same way as the Old Persian EVAKTOM (first) from EVAK (one)).
CHITEM (third) corresponds to the Old Persian form CHITIJA (hyia) and to the Avestan CHITIJEM (cityiem); TVIREM (fourth) - to the Sanskrit double word TURIA-TURIAMA abd to the Avestan TUIRIA-TUIRIEM (tuiriyem); VECHEM (fifth) - to the Avestan PENCHA and PENCHEMA, changed in Pamir to VISH and VISHEM; SHEHTEM (sixth) - to the Sanskrit SASTAMA and the Gaelic SEATHAMH; ES (eight) - to the Sanskrit number ASHTA, which was transformed in the Pamirs into AST and ESHT (HESHT).
All Proto-Bulgarian cardinal numbers have analogies with Sanskrit and Avestan, i.e. with the peoples known today under the general term Indo-Iranians. The developments the Proto-Bulgarian numbers underwent were identical to the developments undergone by the Pamirian and Dardic numbers, they were marked by modifications of the same type. Both the Pamirian peoples and the Proto-bulgarians had the endings OM and EM in place of the former endings AMA and EMA, and in both of them in the cardinal number four appeared an intermediate sound V or F: TUIREM became TVIREM or ZFIREM. In both the word DU (two) became TU, and in the word PENCH the P changed to V. The Proto-Bulgarian and the Pamirian cardinal numbers not only possess a common source, but common modifications as well. It is a proof that these peoples had lived for a long time in close contact and had a long common development. The times, when the Proto-Bulgarians and the ancestors of the Pamir peoples had a common life are far in the past, now we could compare the Proto-Bulgarian cardinal numbers to that of the oldest settlers from the east - the Celts.
Among the Celts, who already in the fourth/fifth c. BC immigrated from the Pamir area, there were also a people named BOLGI, whose name in Old-Celtic generally sounded as BOLGAR. There are many similarities between the Proto-Bulgarian and the Celtic cardinal numbers - the word TU (two) from the British islands (once under a strong Celtic influence) corresponds to the former Sogdian and Proto-Bulgarian word DO (two), which survived partly in Pamir. The Celtic language is the only one which have preserved the old word TEOIR (four), derived from the Avestan TUIRIA, i.e. from the prototype of the Proto-Bulgarian TVIREM (fourth). The word PIMP (five) and FIFS (fifth) is similar to the Pamirian VISH and the Proto-Bulgarian VECHEM (fifth); ES and EIGHT resemble the Proto-Bulgarian form ES. If we add that in the Irish language the month of May, the third month of the spring, is called CHITEAM and the Old Irish form was CHEATAM, it becomes clear that the former Celts not only had a similar system as the peoples of Pamir, but that this system was also used for calendar purposes.
The list of the Proto-Bulgarian numerals and their Old Celtic analogies:

Proto-Bulgarian word	Old Celtic analogies
EL (1), ELEM (first)	EL (one), from which - ELEVEN (11)
TE (2), TUTOM (second)	TU (two), from which the English TWO
CHIT (3), CHITEM (third)	CHITEAM (the 3rd month of the spring) - Irish
TVIR (4), TVIREM (fourth)	TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECH (5), VECHEM (fifth)	FIF, from which the English FIFTH
SHEHT (6), SHEHTEM (sixth)	SEAHT (seven) - Irish
ES (8), ESTEK (80)	ES (eight) - Cornish, ESDEK (eth, ethdek) - 80
ALT (11), ALTEM (eleventh)	EALTA (multiplicity), ALT (added to the end, old)

The similarities with the Celts, the earliest settlers from the east, show that this type of counting was very old. It existed in an accomplished form already in the first millennium BC, at the time, when the first groups of emigrants from the Pamirs made their way to Europe, taking with them this special system of counting.
As this system was so old it is to be assumed that also the calendar, where it appears - the Proto-Bulgarian calendar, was quite old. It did not develop after their settlement in Europe, but much earlier. A proof to this are the Khotano-Saka handwritings from the IV-V c. BC found at the northern edge of the Pamir mountains, with cardinal numbers of the same type as that in the Proto-Bulgarian calendar, for example - PENCHEM (fifth) and PAMJEM with the specific ending "EM".

Proto-Bulgarian example	Pamirian and Dardic analogies	Precursors
ALEM (first)	ALAM, OLAM (first) - Ishkash., Chuf. ALEIN (frontal ) - Tal.	Accad. ALEN, Sanskr. ALAM (initial, highest)
TUTOM (second)	DU, TU (two); DUTA, DUDON (both) - Prasun	Sanskr. DU-TAMA; Pers. DUTOM (second)
CHITEM (third)	CHI, CHIT (three); CHIIEM, CHITEM (third) - Jazgul.	Old Pers. CHITIJA (third); CHITEAM (month May) - Irish
TVIREM (fourth)	ZFIR (four), ZFIREM (fourth)- Munj. TIJREMA (month July) -	Sanskr. TURIA, Avest. TURIA (tuyria), TUIRAM (fourth); TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECHEM (fifth)	VJUCH, VISH (five) - Prasun; PJUCH, PINCH - Saryk.	PENCHEM from PENDSHAMA - Sanskr. PENCHEMA (fifth) - Avest.
SHEHTEM (sixth)	SHEHT (six), SHEHEM (sixth)	SASTAMA (sixth) - Sanskr.
ALTEM (last, twelfth)	ALSAM - Vaynakh., ALD - Wakh.	ALSAM (rest, end) - Vaynakh, AILT (limit) - Celt.
ES (eight) (discovered in Murfatlar's inscriptions)	AZ (Torv.), AS (Bashk.), ASH, ASTE (Prasun), HESHT (Tal.)	ASHTAU - Sanskr.; ES (eth) - Celt., EIGHT - Engl.

[Bender1999]

You still didn't answer to this.

You just picked up the information without name that this stones definitely show non chinese too. The author says they were Sogdian and Turkic people on this stone, so...

[-Invictus-]

You just picked up the information without name that this stones definitely show non chinese too. The author says they were Sogdian and Turkic people on this stone, so...

So it's Chinese art showing Turkic and Sogdian people. It's nowhere near the Madara relief or the Persian one. If you can't read here are the most important parts of the intro :
"Said to have come from a tomb in northern China, these panels and gateposts originally stood on a rectangular coffin platform, now missing."

"3 These couches were created to support the remains of the deceased, and show a strong resemblance to Chinese domestic furniture, particularly to the formal sitting couch (chuang or kang) and the canopied bed (chazuchuang).4



During the fifth through seventh centuries burial practices in north and northwest China included the use of such couches as part of tomb furnishings. Tombs were often multichambered, recreating living quarters, and the funerary couch was placed in the back burial chamber, corresponding to the bedroom of the deceased. The two gateposts at the front of the couch refer to separate architectural forms, each with its own function. One is the chueh, a pair of high towers that mark the entrance to the burial site, the other, the towered entrance to a Chinese house."

I'm still waiting for a Turkic rock relief and an answer to the Brahmi-Bulgar comparison.

Also very important thing is the edit I made to the comment you're replying. Here it is again :
"Edit- Read the posts of PAGANE in the last 2 pages. Turks answering with one sentence just spam the thread and bring 0 value. Read PAGANE's posts, look at the similarities I found between the Bulgar rosette and Brahmi, and then answer. Don't just talk for the sake of talking."

[Lioncourt]

Nowdays Bulgarians arent descended by Protobulgarians, they are Slavic/Thracian people.

Well this isn't proven. We don't have sufficient genetic material of Bulgar people to compare.

[bained]

Very good posts! Thank you for posting them here. Gonna copy-paste my shitpost from another thread about the Magyar Leader:




"""Let's pretend this never happened: https://link.springer.com/article/10...20-019-00996-0

"The Karos samples’ STR data are 1 genetic distance on 17 loci in the Balkans to a Bulgarian from Montana and 2 mutation steps to a Bulgarian from Sofia, a Bulgarian from Plovdiv, and a Tuscan Albanian (see Fig. 7)."

"Archaeological findings: horse cranium (and leg bones), gold hairrings, pair of silver wire bracelets, golden ring with green glasss tone, boot mounts, arabic dirhems, gilded silver impressed belt-buckles, silver-plated sabre tache, flint, iron knife, gilded-silver mounted saber, snaffle, bridle ornaments, horse breast collar mounts, bone mouth of leather bottle, mounted bow case ornaments, remnants of quiver with rosette mounts, arrow heads, bone plates of the bow grip and horns, girth buckle, stirrups, remnants of ornamented saddle."

Not a I-S17250, closest to 3 Bulgarians and mtDNA X2f. Do you know somebody that is Bulgarian from Plovdiv and X2f? I do.""""

[Chelubey]

[FONT="]THE PROTO-BULGARIAN CALENDAR [/FONT] The Ancient Peoples of the East and the Arithmetic of the Proto-Bulgarians
[FONT="]The question to be answered now, after the numerical system of the Proto-Bulgarians was nearly clarified, is:
was there another ancient people that counted in a similar way. Regarding the names of the months, the Sumerian civilization has very interesting points of contact with the Proto-Bulgarian names. They refer, however, to individual isolated words, while in the Pamir the whole system was discovered, with specific endings EM and OM. But the problem is that there existed an older people, who had whole system. The examples listed in the table below are to clarify this difficult question.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Comparison of the names of the Months from the Nominalia and from the Pamirs

[/FONT]

Proto-Bulgarian example	Pamirian and Dardic analogies	Precursors
ALEM (first)	ALAM, OLAM (first) - Ishkash., Chuf. ALEIN (frontal ) - Tal.	Accad. ALEN, Sanskr. ALAM (initial, highest)
TUTOM (second)	DU, TU (two); DUTA, DUDON (both) - Prasun	Sanskr. DU-TAMA; Pers. DUTOM (second)
CHITEM (third)	CHI, CHIT (three); CHIIEM, CHITEM (third) - Jazgul.	Old Pers. CHITIJA (third); CHITEAM (month May) - Irish
TVIREM (fourth)	ZFIR (four), ZFIREM (fourth)- Munj. TIJREMA (month July) -	Sanskr. TURIA, Avest. TURIA (tuyria), TUIRAM (fourth); TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECHEM (fifth)	VJUCH, VISH (five) - Prasun; PJUCH, PINCH - Saryk.	PENCHEM from PENDSHAMA - Sanskr. PENCHEMA (fifth) - Avest.
SHEHTEM (sixth)	SHEHT (six), SHEHEM (sixth)	SASTAMA (sixth) - Sanskr.
ALTEM (last, twelfth)	ALSAM - Vaynakh., ALD - Wakh.	ALSAM (rest, end) - Vaynakh, AILT (limit) - Celt.
ES (eight) (discovered in Murfatlar's inscriptions)	AZ (Torv.), AS (Bashk.), ASH, ASTE (Prasun), HESHT (Tal.)	ASHTAU - Sanskr.; ES (eth) - Celt., EIGHT - Engl.

[FONT="]Old Sanskrit or Avestan, and in some to cases Sumerian and Accadian words are behind almost all Proto-Bulgarian and Pamirian words. The Accadian ALEN, which was changed to ALAM in Sanskrit is, corresponds to our term ALEM. Our TUTOM corresponds to the Sanskrit DUTAMA and the reconstructed Persian DUTOM (which was formed in the same way as the Old Persian EVAKTOM (first) from EVAK (one)).[/FONT]
[FONT="]CHITEM (third) corresponds to the Old Persian form CHITIJA (hyia) and to the Avestan CHITIJEM (cityiem); TVIREM (fourth) - to the Sanskrit double word TURIA-TURIAMA abd to the Avestan TUIRIA-TUIRIEM (tuiriyem); VECHEM (fifth) - to the Avestan PENCHA and PENCHEMA, changed in Pamir to VISH and VISHEM; SHEHTEM (sixth) - to the Sanskrit SASTAMA and the Gaelic SEATHAMH; ES (eight) - to the Sanskrit number ASHTA, which was transformed in the Pamirs into AST and ESHT (HESHT).[/FONT]
[FONT="]All Proto-Bulgarian cardinal numbers have analogies with Sanskrit and Avestan, i.e. with the peoples known today under the general term Indo-Iranians. The developments the Proto-Bulgarian numbers underwent were identical to the developments undergone by the Pamirian and Dardic numbers, they were marked by modifications of the same type. Both the Pamirian peoples and the Proto-bulgarians had the endings OM and EM in place of the former endings AMA and EMA, and in both of them in the cardinal number four appeared an intermediate sound V or F: TUIREM became TVIREM or ZFIREM. In both the word DU (two) became TU, and in the word PENCH the P changed to V. The Proto-Bulgarian and the Pamirian cardinal numbers not only possess a common source, but common modifications as well. It is a proof that these peoples had lived for a long time in close contact and had a long common development. The times, when the Proto-Bulgarians and the ancestors of the Pamir peoples had a common life are far in the past, now we could compare the Proto-Bulgarian cardinal numbers to that of the oldest settlers from the east - the Celts.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Among the Celts, who already in the fourth/fifth c. BC immigrated from the Pamir area, there were also a people named BOLGI, whose name in Old-Celtic generally sounded as BOLGAR. There are many similarities between the Proto-Bulgarian and the Celtic cardinal numbers - the word TU (two) from the British islands (once under a strong Celtic influence) corresponds to the former Sogdian and Proto-Bulgarian word DO (two), which survived partly in Pamir. The Celtic language is the only one which have preserved the old word TEOIR (four), derived from the Avestan TUIRIA, i.e. from the prototype of the Proto-Bulgarian TVIREM (fourth). The word PIMP (five) and FIFS (fifth) is similar to the Pamirian VISH and the Proto-Bulgarian VECHEM (fifth); ES and EIGHT resemble the Proto-Bulgarian form ES. If we add that in the Irish language the month of May, the third month of the spring, is called CHITEAM and the Old Irish form was CHEATAM, it becomes clear that the former Celts not only had a similar system as the peoples of Pamir, but that this system was also used for calendar purposes.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The list of the Proto-Bulgarian numerals and their Old Celtic analogies:

[/FONT]

Proto-Bulgarian word	Old Celtic analogies
EL (1), ELEM (first)	EL (one), from which - ELEVEN (11)
TE (2), TUTOM (second)	TU (two), from which the English TWO
CHIT (3), CHITEM (third)	CHITEAM (the 3rd month of the spring) - Irish
TVIR (4), TVIREM (fourth)	TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECH (5), VECHEM (fifth)	FIF, from which the English FIFTH
SHEHT (6), SHEHTEM (sixth)	SEAHT (seven) - Irish
ES (8), ESTEK (80)	ES (eight) - Cornish, ESDEK (eth, ethdek) - 80
ALT (11), ALTEM (eleventh)	EALTA (multiplicity), ALT (added to the end, old)

[FONT="]The similarities with the Celts, the earliest settlers from the east, show that this type of counting was very old. It existed in an accomplished form already in the first millennium BC, at the time, when the first groups of emigrants from the Pamirs made their way to Europe, taking with them this special system of counting.[/FONT]
As this system was so old it is to be assumed that also the calendar, where it appears - the Proto-Bulgarian calendar, was quite old. It did not develop after their settlement in Europe, but much earlier. A proof to this are the Khotano-Saka handwritings from the IV-V c. BC found at the northern edge of the Pamir mountains, with cardinal numbers of the same type as that in the Proto-Bulgarian calendar, for example - PENCHEM (fifth) and PAMJEM with the specific ending "EM".

Proto-Bulgarian example	Pamirian and Dardic analogies	Precursors
ALEM (first)	ALAM, OLAM (first) - Ishkash., Chuf. ALEIN (frontal ) - Tal.	Accad. ALEN, Sanskr. ALAM (initial, highest)
TUTOM (second)	DU, TU (two); DUTA, DUDON (both) - Prasun	Sanskr. DU-TAMA; Pers. DUTOM (second)
CHITEM (third)	CHI, CHIT (three); CHIIEM, CHITEM (third) - Jazgul.	Old Pers. CHITIJA (third); CHITEAM (month May) - Irish
TVIREM (fourth)	ZFIR (four), ZFIREM (fourth)- Munj. TIJREMA (month July) -	Sanskr. TURIA, Avest. TURIA (tuyria), TUIRAM (fourth); TEOIR (four) - Irish
VECHEM (fifth)	VJUCH, VISH (five) - Prasun; PJUCH, PINCH - Saryk.	PENCHEM from PENDSHAMA - Sanskr. PENCHEMA (fifth) - Avest.
SHEHTEM (sixth)	SHEHT (six), SHEHEM (sixth)	SASTAMA (sixth) - Sanskr.
ALTEM (last, twelfth)	ALSAM - Vaynakh., ALD - Wakh.	ALSAM (rest, end) - Vaynakh, AILT (limit) - Celt.
ES (eight) (discovered in Murfatlar's inscriptions)	AZ (Torv.), AS (Bashk.), ASH, ASTE (Prasun), HESHT (Tal.)	ASHTAU - Sanskr.; ES (eth) - Celt., EIGHT - Engl.

I think this calendar's vocabulary is someone's joke.
This calendar uses vocabulary from Slavic ,Turkic and some unknown language, and its meaning is still not clear. Scientists have deciphered the Orkhon-Yenisei script, the Egyptian hieroglyphs, but still can not decipher the meaning of this " Old Bulgarian" text. At the same time, we have some Bulgarian words from medieval sources - it is ordinary Turkic words.

[-Invictus-]

At the same time, we have some Bulgarian words from medieval sources - it is ordinary Turkic words.

Let me guess - Volga Bulgaria? Please send link to these words or at least say them to prove your point.

[Chelubey]

Let me guess - Volga Bulgaria? Please send link to these words or at least say them to prove your point.

https://xn--80ad7bbk5c.xn--p1ai/ru/c...van-lugat-turk