Ancient genomes from present-day France unveil 7,000 years of its demographic history

[XenophobicPrussian]

Can someone try to find the dating on BES1248? He's the Y-DNA I1 IA sample clustering northern autosomally, yet is from coastal southern France.. I know all the IA samples are from 800-100 BC, but can't find specific for each sample.

Seems to me like he'd either be a Cimbri/Teuton(but this heavily depends on the dating) or I1 is from Bell Beakers and his wasn't the Germanic clade.

Btw, in their section on their qpADM models,

None of our Iron Age samples shows evidence of Greek or Roman ancestry in our dataset

, if anyone wants to claim the south shifted samples are Italics rather than Hallstatt Celts, and Rome only held parts of southern France in 100 BC anyway.

[Lucas]

Can someone try to find the dating on BES1248? He's the Y-DNA I1 IA sample clustering northern autosomally, yet is from coastal southern France.. I know all the IA samples are from 800-100 BC.

Seems to me like he'd either be a Cimbri/Teuton(but this heavily depends on the dating) or I1 is from Bell Beakers and his wasn't the Germanic clade.

Btw, in their section on their qpADM models, , if anyone wants to claim the south shifted samples are Italics rather than Hallstatt Celts, and Rome only held parts of southern France in 100 BC anyway.

Anyway those "northern southerners" had to be displaced or diluted later.
Alsace got Germanic influx.
But Hauts de France stays the same since IA... If we can conclude using so small subset.

[Samnium]

OK New averages comparing to modern pops.

Difficult to conclude something with so little samples in the south and the north I would say, we have to know if these two samples in the south are "immigrants".

[Creoda]

OK New averages comparing to modern pops.

Target: FRA_IA_north (no big difference than today)
Distance: 2.7289% / 0.02728949 | ADC: 1x
86.2 Belgian
8.4 French_Paris
5.4 French_Brittany

Target: FRA_IA_central (southern shifted central French)
Distance: 1.3569% / 0.01356942 | ADC: 1x
63.2 French_Occitanie
36.8 French_Nord

Target: FRA_IA_south YES
Distance: 2.8076% / 0.02807648 | ADC: 1x
68.2 French_Brittany
24.2 Orcadian
7.6 French_Seine-Maritime

That's a big WTF, but it kind of makes sense. If true it may explain why Iberia had such a Northern shift in the Iron Age despite 'Celts' allegedly being SW Euro like. The alternative would have been that Celts almost totally replaced Bronze Age Iberians, which obviously isn't true.

[Lucas]

Difficult to conclude something with so little samples in the south and the north I would say, we have to know if these two samples in the south are "immigrants".

There are more samples which weren't added to G25. Someone can compare now in other calcs if those not added are also "northern" in the south...

[Lucas]

Can someone try to find the dating on BES1248? He's the Y-DNA I1 IA sample clustering northern autosomally, yet is from coastal southern France.. I know all the IA samples are from 800-100 BC, but can't find specific for each sample.

Seems to me like he'd either be a Cimbri/Teuton(but this heavily depends on the dating) or I1 is from Bell Beakers and his wasn't the Germanic clade.

Btw, in their section on their qpADM models, , if anyone wants to claim the south shifted samples are Italics rather than Hallstatt Celts, and Rome only held parts of southern France in 100 BC anyway.

On Anthrogenica someone post

I received a response from the scientist in charge of the sample BES1248. It’s from a site very much in the south of France at Bessan, La Monediére from the second century B.C.

Unfortunately, she couldn’t provide any more information regarding Y chromosome SNP calls. Based on the quality of the sample and the approach they took this is all we have to work with at this point in time. A different approach taken in the future that targets the Y chromosome could possibly yield better coverage.

Based on the above information I’m leaning more heavily now on the sample not actually being positive for I-S10350. However, since BES1248 is genetically more similar to people from the north of France maybe he wasn’t actually born in the South of France in which case I-S10350 could still be a possibility?
If the Teutones and Ambrones could fight the Romans in 102 BC at the Battle of Aquae Sextiae all the way south in Aix-en-Provence, France maybe BES1248 is not so far displaced after all?

[Eline]

Thanks for sharing this paper!

[Eline]

So, does this mean than the Gauls evolved from the Bell Beaker in NorthEast France, but sill inside France?

[Eline]

So, does this mean than the Gauls evolved from the Bell Beaker in NorthEast France, but sill inside France?

And later the original homeland of the Gauls (inside France or Belgium) was overrun by the Franks???

[Eline]

The biggest irony is that the native language of France (French) is not from the Gauls and neither from the Franks but from Romance/Italic.