Andalusia-Europe vs Morocco-Africa (The inheritance of Al Andalus)

[Axios]

And culture, people history etc...

Glad to see you think like that. Have a nice night

[samario]

So what’s the truth?

[Gota_type_]

And culture, people history etc...

So, you are a muslim living in Germany, correct?

Because morocco people are the worst in the world. And "history" of morocco?? What the hell have they done in the past of relevance?? Nothing. They are a bunch of goat-fuckers and the origin of millions of dirty bastards that are destroying hundred of cities in Western Europe with their huge delinquency, their ugly faces, their not willing to work (80% live on welfare) and their inmense trouble-making.

I don´t know why morocco Young goat-fuckers want to live in Europe to "have a future". We should not allow them to enter in Europe. And we should remove ALL of them. They are an inmense threat because they lack civic behaviour and have much different "values".

And I don´t get why people are comparing glorious Spain with shitty morocco. We are worlds apart. The most divergent border in the world with the biggest differences in all cathegories.

[Gallop]

Andalusian religious imagery




















Moroccan religious imagery




Heritage of Al Andalus for Andalusia No Match

[Bender1999]

So, you are a muslim living in Germany, correct?

Because morocco people are the worst in the world. And "history" of morocco?? What the hell have they done in the past of relevance?? Nothing. They are a bunch of goat-fuckers and the origin of millions of dirty bastards that are destroying hundred of cities in Western Europe with their huge delinquency, their ugly faces, their not willing to work (80% live on welfare) and their inmense trouble-making.

I don´t know why morocco Young goat-fuckers want to live in Europe to "have a future". We should not allow them to enter in Europe. And we should remove ALL of them. They are an inmense threat because they lack civic behaviour and have much different "values".

And I don´t get why people are comparing glorious Spain with shitty morocco. We are worlds apart. The most divergent border in the world with the biggest differences in all cathegories.

I know just nice moroccans, who are fully integrated. The spanish people in my age have the same clique with moroccans and other non germans. I don’t understand why you are so offensive, morrocans have after egyptians a remarkable history. From ancient berbers, roman empire, after that the arabs( i know many dislike them but in this era they were one of the most civilized people), etc. I like both countries and people, why it is difficult to accept that also other people have a history. Spain is a great country morocco is a great country.

[Axios]

I know just nice moroccans, who are fully integrated. The spanish people in my age have the same clique with moroccans and other non germans. I don’t understand why you are so offensive, morrocans have after egyptians a remarkable history. From ancient berbers, roman empire, after that the arabs( i know many dislike them but in this era they were one of the most civilized people), etc. I like both countries and people, why it is difficult to accept that also other people have a history. Spain is a great country morocco is a great country.

Just ignore this people, don't find intelligence in them because they don't have it, they can't argue, they just insult. They are probably old people having a mid life crisis because they didn't do much in life, thus spreading their failure with hate against immigrants.

[Axios]

Andalusian religious imagery














Moroccan religious imagery




Heritage of Al Andalus for Andalusia No Match

You keep posting pictures that dont have much to do with what are you trying to prove, Moorish heritage is very very old in Spain, i don't get your point about proving there was no heritage by posting modern photos??

[Tietar]

Since flamenco music is relatively modern music based on fusions with gypsy dances from Hindu music (kathak), the Arab/African inheritance in Andalusia is getting closer to zero.


Renaissance music in Seville (16th century)

The Renaissance was the Golden Age of Andalusian music, driven by the growing economic power derived from the discovery of America and the conquest of the Kingdom of Granada by the Catholic Monarchs, which made possible the establishment of the various cathedrals and their respective musical chapels. , reaching its highest levels in the field of European music. The usual instruments in cathedral chapels were wind instruments, although stringed instruments, especially harps and violas da braccio , also regularly participated in the accompaniment or alternation of voices.

Seville's cultural tradition reaches its peak of development during the 16th century . The solemnity and musical complexity was a function of the importance of the celebrated religious festival, which requires an intense dedication from the chapelmaster, because the brilliance and showmanship of the act depended on him. Seville became, as the seat of the head of commerce with the Indies, a center of musical irradiation of the greatest importance, especially from 1506 , when the new cathedral was completed.

Seville then had very notable growers: Pedro Fernández de Castilleja, Cristobal de Morales, Mudarra, Francisco Guerrero or Francisco Peraza. Some as chapel teachers, others as composers, and others as organists, gave high flying to the polyphonic music of Seville. Fundamentally religious music that had its great stage in the cathedral and of whose grandeur splendid testimonies remain in the musical archive of the first Hispanic temple.

In 1507, the permanent organist plaza was established in the cathedral of Seville, which had previously been temporary. Pedro de Villada, the main promoter of the cathedral's large organ, stood out, followed by Jerónimo Peraza de Sotomayor, Diego del Castillo and Francisco Peraza, the latter biographed by Francisco Pacheco in his " Book of Description of True Portraits ", from 1599 and selected by opposition by the Warrior himself.

In the 16th century, the Cathedrals and the cities contracted wind instrument ensembles consisting mainly of chirimías, cornet, sackbucks and bassoons (and occasionally flutes and orlos), known in Spain as Ministriles or Chirimías, in Italy pifferi or trombetti , pfeiffern in Germany and waits in England .

The ministries played in the liturgical offices, preceded and brightened the processions, announced the festivals, and even marked the beginning of sales in the markets. The use of instruments to accompany polyphony is one of the most interesting features of the 16th century. Their versatility allowed them to bend and alternate delicately with the singers and also compete with the noise of the squares.

As for the Sevillian ministries, the cathedral in Seville had three chirimías and two corkscrews hired for the most important festivals -perhaps from 1526-, until, in 1553, with Francisco Guerrero, the fixed squares were created, although they continued to hire trumpets , cornets, atabales (timpani) or tamborinos (tamboril, small drum).

Pedro Fernández de Castilleja , considered a teacher of the teachers of Spain , composed motets, chazonetas and will be the teacher of Francisco Guerrero and Cristóbal de Morales. A long life allowed him to remain at the service of the cathedral from 1505 to 1568 when he retired. His student, Cristóbal de Morales will be, with Francisco Guerrero, also from Seville, one of the three great Spanish polyphonists of the 16th century.

Alonso Mudarra , canon in 1547, great vihuela player, composed "Three music books in numbers" for this instrument. The aforementioned Guerrero, like his companion Morales, walked more outside than in Seville; He is the central figure in the music scene of the time. It was up to him to update the musical archive of the cathedral together with Fernández de Castilleja, to be a teacher of the famous singers, and to compose an infinity of works that are still preserved, and many of which were printed abroad and while the author was alive.



Finally, Francisco de Peraza , organist and composer, author of "Half register high first tone" and masterful interpreter, who died in 1598. He deserved to be buried in the chapel of the Virgen de la Antigua and that Guerrero said that he had a angel on each finger.

But, among all the Sevillian Renaissance composers, I will highlight two for the quality of their musical production, for their projection, as well as for their contribution to the development of Andalusian music.

Cristobal De Morales

The Sevillian Cristobal de Morales (c. 1500 - 1553) was the most illustrious composer of his time and the leading figure in Andalusian polyphonic religious art, of the Sevillian school.

The first news that is had of him dates from 1526, as master of the chapel of the cathedrals of Avila and Plasencia. Then, in 1535, in the Sistine Chapel of Rome with Paul III, already being a priest; Such was the fame that he acquired in Rome that he was commissioned to compose the cantata Jubilate Deo omnis terra on the occasion of the peace treaty between Charles V and Francis I of France.

In 1545 he was master of the chapel of the Cathedral of Toledo; then he was in Marchena (Seville); in 1551 he went to his last home, Malaga. This continuous change of residence was due to his desire to obtain better economic benefits.

His work spread very quickly, since in a space of twenty years more than forty printed editions were made throughout Europe (Italy, Germany, the Netherlands, France and Spain). His editorial success lasted until after his death. His works appear today in the best anthologies, alongside those of other great masters.

His work includes 21 masses, 75 motets, 2 magnificats, among other compositions of equal importance. Even today the Pontifical Chapel continues to sing one of its great motets for Lent: "Lamentabatur Jacob", from 1564. He died in Malaga in 1553, when he was preparing to return to the plaza he left in Toledo, perhaps due to malaria.



Francisco Guerrero

Guerrero (1528-1599) was considered the highest representative of the Seville school in this golden age. He was the greatest teacher of sacred polyphony at the Andalusian School. He was a student of his brother Pedro, Pedro Fernández de Castilleja and Cristóbal de Morales himself. He began as a boy singer in the cathedral of Seville and occupied the plaza de maestro de capilla of the cathedral of Jaén, city in which he remained until 1549, when he returned to Seville again as singer of the twenties. Later he was appointed teacher of children, with the promise from the Cathedral Chapter of the succession of the master Castilleja when he died. Definitive ownership would be obtained in 1574 . Apart from music, he was a member of the Holy Office.

Guerrero was an indefatigable traveler, who visited, for different reasons, Carlos V and Felipe II, and even traveled to Rome and Venice in order to print their works. But his most famous trip was the one made to Jerusalem in 1588, the result of which he wrote an autobiographical book entitled " The Journey of Jerusalem, made by Francisco Guerrero, racionero and chapelmaster of the Holy Church of Seville ", published in Seville in 1596.

After 44 years in the service of the cathedral of Seville, an epidemic of plague ended his life in 1599. Among his work we can highlight 16 masses, 2 officium defunctorum, 34 hymns, about 105 printed motets and a cycle of magnificats (he was always known in Spain as a fervent singer to the Virgin). Within the production of the master, the " Songs and spiritual villains ", unique in their genre because they are in the vernacular, occupy an exceptional place .

Guerrero's works were printed in Paris, Leuven, Rome and Venice, as well as in his native country, a rare exception among sixteenth-century Spanish polyphonists. With a noble serenity and great artistic expression, these compositions place him among the great exponents of the Spanish polyphonic school; There was no cathedral or temple in the Peninsula where their works were not executed, until well into the 17th century.




https://personal.us.es/alporu/histse...to_sevilla.htm

[Gallop]

Gazpacho the typical Andalusian drink
Tomato is basic in gazpacho and it was brought from America in addition to vinegar if it is excellent sherry wine vinegar e.t.c.






Tea with mint typical Moroccan drink





Heritage of Al Andalus for Andalusia No Match

[Gallop]

Survey of two complete Andalusians who know nothing of these crazy forums:

I have asked my 87 year old father

Dad, what heritage do Andalusians have from the time of Al Andalus?

Nothing, we Spaniards stayed and the Moors had to leave

The same question to another mature relative

None, the same old monuments as we have monuments of the Romans, they came, they were and they left