Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: ECHR rules against Bulgaria. Supports Macedonian minority.

  1. #11
    Veteran Member PAGANE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    03-25-2024 @ 03:28 PM
    Location
    Varna
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Bulgar
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Ancestry
    Byzantine + Scythian (5.528) Seleucid + Scythian (5.695) Seleucid + Gaul (7.389) Byzantine + Gaul
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Y-DNA
    E-FTD7860 / maternal grandparents I-p37, J-M172
    mtDNA
    J1c-C16261T
    Taxonomy
    Beautiful
    Religion
    Orthodoxy Christianity
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Gender
    Posts
    2,149
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,896
    Given: 1,003

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    When these pensioners leave this world, where will the "Macedonians" take them from? There are no Macedonians in Bulgaria. Available only in Greece. And the other is northern Macedonians - created in 2018.
    ...Even if a man lives well, he dies and another one comes into existence. Let the one who comes later upon seeing this inscription remember the one who had made it. And the name is Omurtag, Kanasubigi.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Last Online
    08-07-2020 @ 04:56 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    457
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 152
    Given: 156

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    I like how all these "quotes" from Bulgarian revolutionaries and "oppressed Macedonian minorities" are all from sites ending with .mk. Do you really think that the visual effect of a typewriter and old paper can't be done in Photoshop? When you give an outside source, then maybe I can take it more seriously. I also can see Bulgarian letters like "я" and the old Bulgarian symbol for "ъ" - "ѫ". Also 'оть" is like the Bulgarian "от" and not the Macedonian "од". The editors didn't do a good job of differentiating the "Old Macedonian" from Old Bulgarian. Also wonder why modern Macedonian uses "jа" instead of "я" and the sound for "ъ" is completely eliminated or replaced with "а","o" and "у" just like in Serbian?

  3. #13
    Veteran Member PAGANE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    03-25-2024 @ 03:28 PM
    Location
    Varna
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Bulgar
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Ancestry
    Byzantine + Scythian (5.528) Seleucid + Scythian (5.695) Seleucid + Gaul (7.389) Byzantine + Gaul
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Y-DNA
    E-FTD7860 / maternal grandparents I-p37, J-M172
    mtDNA
    J1c-C16261T
    Taxonomy
    Beautiful
    Religion
    Orthodoxy Christianity
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Gender
    Posts
    2,149
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,896
    Given: 1,003

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    [QUOTE = -Invictus-; 6725623] Харесва ми как всички тези „цитати“ от български революционери и „потиснати македонски малцинства“ са от сайтове, завършващи с .mk. Наистина ли мислите, че визуалният ефект на пишеща машина и стара хартия не може да се направи във Photoshop? Когато дадете външен източник, тогава може би мога да го приема по-сериозно. Виждам и български букви като "я" и старият български символ за "ъ" - "ѫ". Също така "оть" е като българското "от", а не от македонския "од". Редакторите не свършиха добра работа по разграничаването на "старата македонска" от старобългарската. Също така се чудят защо съвременният македонски използва "jа" вместо "я" и звукът за "ъ" е напълно елиминиран или заменен с "а", "о"


    Excerpts from the transcript confirming the "original" newly created Macedonian language have been preserved. The meeting was attended by Risto Prodanov, Risto Zografski, Dr. Gjorche Shoptrayan, Dare Djambaz, Vasil Iliev, Dr. Mihail Petrushevski, Krume Toshev, Mirko Pavlov, Gjorge Kiselinov, Blajo Koneski, Dr. Milka Balvanlieva - then teachers, Venko - poet, Epaminondas Popandonov (from ASNOM). The names are written according to the protocol from 27.XI. 1944
    Here are a few excerpts from the popular Bulgarian language with some Western features of the participants in the conference, sincerely acknowledging that so far there has been no literary Macedonian language, let alone a history of the language; that more care must be taken to avoid making political mistakes with regard to Serbia and the federation; that the Revivalists actually wrote in the then Bulgarian literary language; that it is necessary to think of a common Yugoslav language (?!); that the adverb - the basis of the literary language, has yet to be understood by presenting essays, etc.
    On August 2, 1944, the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM) was established in the Prohor Pcinski Monastery, which proclaimed Vardar Macedonia an integral federal unit of Yugoslavia and decided to establish a "Macedonian literary language." From November 27 to December 3, 1944, a conference of the philological commission for the creation of the "Macedonian alphabet" and the "Macedonian literary language" met in Skopje.

    Е. Попандонов: „Ние требе денеска да ги положиме основите на нашата писменост и на нашата книжевност, установаеjки македонска азбука и македонски литературен jазик…разбира се да вклучиме и интересите на целата заедница во коjа се наоѓаме, интересите на федеративна и демократска Jугославиjа. Jас од това место сакам да ве поканам да викнеме: „Да е жив Тито“(викане Да е жив). „Да е жива Комунистическата партиа…(Да е жива!) (Epaminondas Popandonov, Stenographic Notes, pp. 1-2)
    "But thanks to the Communist Party, which in today's gigantic struggle was the first to raise the flag for the struggle against the occupiers and for the freedom of all enslaved peoples, as well as for the freedom of the Macedonian people, thanks to the troops of our far-sighted Marshal Tito and especially our young Macedonian army, we have our own country today… Of course, in order for a nation to be cultural, it needs cultural development, and this cannot happen without writing, without the alphabet. In order to keep a nation in today's struggle of cultural nations, it must establish itself as a nation in such a way that those features that characterize it as a nation come to the surface… Therefore, we must today lay the foundations of our writing and literature by establishing the Macedonian alphabet and the Macedonian literary language. To accomplish this task, we must therefore be guided by the interests of our Macedonian people and, of course, by including the interests of the whole community ("community") in which we find ourselves, the interests of a federal and democratic Yugoslavia. From this place I want to invite you to shout: "Long live the leader of a democratic and federal Yugoslavia, Marshal Tito" (shouts "Long live!"). Long live the Communist Party, which gave us the opportunity to gather here today… (shouts "Long live!") " (Epaminondas Popandonov, Stenographic Notes, pp. 1-2)

    Р. Зографски: „Според мене, по-арно да направиме некоjа граматичка грешка, отколку да направиме некоjа политичка грешка.“ (стр. 29)
    R. Zografski: "In my opinion, it is better to make a grammatical mistake than to make a political mistake." (P. 29)

    Бл. Конески: „Ако jа земеме српската кирилица, пак нашиот jазик ке си остане македонски. Па ништо пак нема да се допринесе ако сакаме и со азбуката да подцъртаме разликата меѓу нас и сърбите.“ (стр. 29 – 30)
    "There is a lot of interest in this work of ours, there are many other people who are interested in this issue. And I think that there are many among them who will not agree with the current opinions. Inventing new letters is not a simple and easy task, so we should not rush into it before we have thought it through. In order to invent new letters, we must make solid and solid arguments that the old letters do not work. And the old has been tested in practice… If we take the Serbian Cyrillic, our language will still remain Macedonian. We will not contribute anything if we want to maintain the difference between us and the Serbs with the alphabet. "(Blaze Konevski, pp. 29-30)

    В. Илиев: „Ништо не ни пречи, никакви чувства не ни пречат од братската сърпска азбука да земеме љ и њ.“ (стр. 36)

    Г. Киселинов: „Литературниот jазик го прават литераторите и журналистите, а филолозите имат само да установат формите на jазикот. Ама денеска ако сакаме да земеме едно наречjе од нашиот jазик како литературен jазик, немаме време да чекаме да се прави тоj jазик. Ние сме исправени пред вопросот да имаме литературен jазик, а немаме време и не можеме да чекаме тоj jазик да го направат поети, книжевници и журналисти.“ (стр. 3)
    "We do not have time to wait for this language to be made. We are faced with the question of having a literary language, but we do not have the time and we cannot wait for this language to be made by poets, writers and journalists. In France, the Parisian dialect was taken as the literary language; in Russia - Moscow, in Serbia - Herzegovina. Literary language gradually developed from these dialects. But, as I said, we do not have time to wait for any of our dialects to develop into a literary language.
    (George Kiselinov, p. 3)

    Круме Тошески: „Наjубаво е биде, ако можеме да наjдеме нешто средно, може не много научно, ама со мера и практично.“ (стр. 35).
    Krume Tosheski: "It will be best if we can find something average, maybe not very scientific, but in moderation and practical." (P. 35)


    Круме Тошески„Jас страхувам да не направиме некоjа грешка, та да ни се смеjат лугето!“(Круме Тошески, с. 17)
    "I'm afraid we'll make a mistake so that the lye will laugh at us!"
    (Krume Tosheski, p. 17)

    Obviously, the members of the commission are aware that their writings will provoke laughter among the scientific community.


    Бл. Конески: „Се рече централното наречjе да се земе како основа за македонскиот литературен jазик. Jас сметам дека това наречjе треба да се обjасни, ако се не определи географски каде се говори това наречjе. Jас сметам оти не може да се определи нито по (jусот), нито по Ъ (ер голем). Затова предлагам еден реферат да се изнесе за главните особености на това наречjе. Без това не можеме да го определиме.“ (стр. 22-23).
    Bl. Koneski: "It was said that the central dialect should be taken as a basis for the Macedonian literary language. I think that this dialect should be explained, if it is not determined geographically where this dialect is spoken. I don't think it can be determined either by ™ (jusot) or by Ъ (er large). Therefore, I propose to give an essay on the main features of this dialect. Without this we cannot determine it. ”(Pp. 22-23).

    Milka Balvanlieva "Time itself forces us to take the letters from the Serbo-Croatian Cyrillic alphabet, because in newer science we avoid making diphthongs." With the Serbo-Croatian Cyrillic alphabet, we will have a Yugoslav alphabet. (Milka Balvanlieva, p. 24)

    "In the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, literary work was transferred to the monasteries, especially in the Athos forest, where Father Paisius, the first Macedonian semi-medieval and semi-modern historian, came from."
    (George Kiselinov, pp. 4-6)
    I just remind you that this father Paisii, "the first Macedonian semi-medieval and semi-modern historian." Wrote Slavo-Bulgarian History Paisii himself says: "Oh, unwise and fool! Why are you ashamed to call yourself a Bulgarian and do not read or speak your language? "
    In which the First Preface
    In this part, attention is paid to the "wise" reader. History is defined as a source of knowledge and hope. Second preface
    "To those who wish to read and hear what is written in this story" is the second part, which is an independent creation of Paisius. In it he addresses the entire Bulgarian family, criticizing foreign worshipers and praising patriots. He compares Bulgarians and Greeks and emphasizes the virtues of our simple sincere people, making an analogy with the biblical apostles. The real part
    It is a compilation of works by various historians such as "The Slavic Kingdom" by Mavro Orbini, "Acts of Church and Civil" by Caesar Baroni and others. He also uses Bulgarian biographies and diplomas of Bulgarian kings. This part consists of 7 chapters, combining a story about the Bulgarian and Serbian kings, the saints and the Slavic first teachers. The main advantage is not in the factual precision, but in the selection, as it is made so as to emphasize the army and the spiritual sublimity of the Bulgarian people.


    Eight decades later, the heirs of the political writers in the language now unconditionally believe that the Macedonian language comes from time immemorial and has no Bulgarian roots.
    The first Macedonian primer published in Greece in the 1940s. Illustration from the Macedonian press. Strangely written in pure Bulgarian


    ANSOM decision for the creation of the Macedonian language


    The new "language" is ultimately no different from the old one that has become its basis. This conclusion is in harmony with the conclusion of the world-famous Balkanist G. Weigand, who wrote a special chapter on the subject and titled it precisely "The Macedonian Bulgarian Language" in his famous work on Macedonia:
    "Whichever area of ​​the language we look at, it is quite clear that we are dealing with Bulgarian, not Serbian. All attempts by Serbian chauvinists to present the Macedonian language as a Serbian dialect or as a mixed language of indeterminate character are fruitless. "


    The Bulgarian language, due to the impossibility of Bulgaria to achieve its national unification in the twentieth century and due to the imposed emigration of the population in the past after various wars, reported a record number of attempts for written-regional codifications - six. "Pluricentric language" is a language with more than one written norm. Three of them are in Greece: the "alphabetical" experience of 1925, the "Aegean-Macedonian" experience of 1953, and the "Pomak" experience of 1995-1996. ) Banat. A codification in the 1930s took place in Soviet Ukraine, and after the end of World War II in the Republic of Macedonia (formerly Tito's Yugoslavia). Of these six codifications, three (two in Greece - "Abecedarian" and "Pomak" and one in Banat) were made on the basis of dialects and three (in the Aegean part of Greece; in the Republic of Macedonia and in Ukraine) - on the basis of literary Bulgarian language.
    ...Even if a man lives well, he dies and another one comes into existence. Let the one who comes later upon seeing this inscription remember the one who had made it. And the name is Omurtag, Kanasubigi.

  4. #14
    I'm back, angrier than ever
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Online
    11-19-2023 @ 06:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian with a whiff of Greek
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    5,052
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,414
    Given: 571

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    These Bulgarian citizen with ethnic "Macedonian" identity are more or less absolutely the same uneducated villagers as those Bulgarians on the Black sea coast who claim "Greek" identity just because their grandparents moved from Eagean Macedonia in Bulgaria. Because Eagean Macedonia is in Greece today, the logic is that they are also Greeks.

    "Macedonian" or "Greek" identity sounds more "prestigious" especially to the ones in Pirin Macedonia where the village mentality is much stronger. Typically, every second sentence of such people start with "Mamata ti...", when insulting the animals or his wife, or when he just wants to say something. The "Macedonian" identity among such people becomes even stronger when they get some propaganda money , in order to buy woods for the winter or when propaganda events with cheap kebabcheta and kufteta are being organised.

    This is the "Northmacedonian" minority in Bulgaria. Unfortunately, nobody funds the people claiming Greek identity on the Black sea, that's why noone knows about this tiny group of confused people. The "Macedonians" get some money and are part of some miserable events during the year and this is the reason why you have the huge number of less than 2,000 in the whole country.

    Honestly, I think that the Bulgarian politics regarding history and national identity during the years are totally wrong. Almost every Bulgarian is confused about his past and background, that's why I personally think that we should not blame the Macedonians that they collectively have decided to be something different from Bulgarians. Even in modern times, with the right conditions, we would easily
    be able to create "Thracian" nation, as the ethnic identity of the citizen in Bulgaria is very weak. We cannot convince Macedonians that they are wrong, when our own identity is very weak.

    I remember my first class about the creation of the Bulgarian nation in school. We had descriptions of Slavs and Bulgars and the response of the teacher of the questions "How do we know who are Bulgars and who are Slavs among us?" was "Those of you who are darker are Bulgars, and those who are light are Slavs". This creates unconsciously division between students and later grown up people when it comes to ethnic identity.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Crn Volk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Taxonomy
    Pontid-CM
    Hero
    Julius Evola
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Gender
    Posts
    14,812
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,157
    Given: 6,705

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGANE View Post
    When these pensioners leave this world, where will the "Macedonians" take them from? There are no Macedonians in Bulgaria. Available only in Greece. And the other is northern Macedonians - created in 2018.
    Here;








  6. #16
    Veteran Member Lioncourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Last Online
    03-22-2024 @ 07:47 AM
    Location
    Plovdiv, ancient and eternal
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic squatting crew
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Politics
    Right is right
    Religion
    A mystery
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Posts
    1,642
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,452
    Given: 185

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crn Volk View Post
    Here;
    Are these all the "Macedonians" in Bulgaria? I see more people in my local Kaufland in Saturday morning.

    Surely there are some tourists from North Macedonia as well.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Crn Volk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    @
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian
    Country
    Macedonia
    Taxonomy
    Pontid-CM
    Hero
    Julius Evola
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Gender
    Posts
    14,812
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,157
    Given: 6,705

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lioncourt View Post
    Are these all the "Macedonians" in Bulgaria? I see more people in my local Kaufland in Saturday morning.

    Surely there are some tourists from North Macedonia as well.
    Idi na kafe kaj ovoj Makedonec vo Pirinsko


  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Last Online
    08-07-2020 @ 04:56 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    457
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 152
    Given: 156

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crn Volk View Post
    Here;







    Какво ли е ставало на този събор преди 100 години
    https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93...B1%D0%BE%D1%80

    "Големиот македонски собор е првиот општ конгрес на сите македонски организации во Бугарија, на кој за првпат јавно е прокламирана новата крајна цел на македонското револуционерно ослободително движење - Независна Македонија"

    https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92...B1%D0%BE%D1%80

    Съпругата на д-р Татарчев( ) :
    "Швейцарка по рождение, моята съдба се свърза с македонски българин. Седем години живях в Ресен и там, както и при другите си обиколки в Македония, се убедих, че там живеят българи. Това могат да отричат само хора, които не желаят да видят истината. Моят мъж и аз отидохме в Женева, за да защитим Македония... Моят мъж лежа 4 години в затвора, но аз като майка на две деца заявявам с гордост, че съм готова винаги да възпитавам своите деца в любов към Македония и към нейната борба за освобождение...[2]"

    Декларацията общоприета от събора заедно с един много интересен призив :
    "Най-същественото условие за премахването на враждите и недоверието между балканските народи е обособяването на Македония, която днес е разпокъсана между трите държави Югославия, Гърция и България, в една самостоятелна политическа единица в нейните естествени географски граници. Идеалът е „Македония за македонците!“... С прискърбие съборът констатира, че рушители и престъпници спрямо македонското дело намират подкрепа и съдействие в българските официални политически кръгове."

    Така за пръв път официално Независима Македония измества автономията като цел на борбата на освободителното движение.

    Приет е и Призив към македонската емиграция в България, подписан от бюрото, от ръководителите на Македонския национален комитет Георги Кондов и Христо Зографов, от Съюз „Илинден“ Кирил Христов и Христо Шалдев, от Македонския женски съюз – Вела Карайовова и Константина Александрова (сестра на Тодор Александров), от Македонската парламентарна група – Константин Станишев и Петър Мърмев, от Македонския младежки съюз – Д. Михайлов и от Македонския студентски съюз със секретар Г. Николов. В Призива се казва, че

    "известните партизански кръжоци в България ще престанат да тормозят нашето освободително дело, което в основата си е дело за спасение на българщината в Македония... Да живее свободният български народ!
    "

    Сега разбираш ли защо идеята за присъедняване на Македония към България е била заменена с тази за самостоятелна Македония? Присъединяването е било почти невъзможно на този етап от историята. След около 50 години борба вече се е знаело, че нито Сърбия, нито Гърция, нито Великите Сили ще позволят подобно нещо да се случи. За това и Българите са подпомогнали тази Македонска идея. По-добре свободни Македонци с Българско самосъзнание от колкото посърбявани/погърчавани. Другият вариянт е бил трета Балканска война, което е щяло да бъде пълно безумие.

    В днешно време събрали оркестър, народни хора, шепа пенсионери дошли просто да гледат какво се случва в селото им и 3-4ма им дали Македонски знамена. Не че е лошо, но днешната идея на събора ми изглежда много по-различна от оригиналната.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Greece’s invisible minority the Macedonian Slavs
    By Crn Volk in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 359
    Last Post: 04-23-2019, 03:22 PM
  2. Macedonian Magazine Proposes Federation With Bulgaria
    By Crn Volk in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 06-13-2018, 08:35 AM
  3. Bulgaria protests Macedonian Holocaust movie at EU
    By hajduk in forum България
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 03-25-2012, 11:24 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-2011, 03:08 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-21-2010, 06:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •