Attn: Greek and Bulgar trolls of the Macedonian section

[Serbian Eagle]

Serbia and Montenegro were separated countries, but people are same. Like today Germany and Austria, two separated countries but same people.

[Serbian Eagle]

Serbia and Montenegro were separated countries for centuries, but people are same. Like today Germany and Austria, two separated countries but same people.

[Crimea-Khan]

Montenegro is Bulgar, Shqiptar, Serb mix

[Uski]

Serbia and Montenegro were separated countries for centuries, but people are same. Like today Germany and Austria, two separated countries but same people.

Weird donald trump example but ok, so austrians are germans, the same way montenegrins are serbs, the same way macedonians are bulgarians. Also the macedonian church is under occupation by the serbs, and should either be independent or part of the bulgarian one. (If we applied your Seagull logic)

[-Invictus-]

Bulgarian claim for Ohrid, Skopje and Bitola are legit.
First of all, you need to understand the importance of states and state history when these stuff are being discussed. Even though they technically qualify to be Yugoslavians, the Bulgarians were not considered to be such because they had a state when no Slavic people had one. It is why, whereas even the Slovenian people who were part of the German HRE for 1000 years were given to Yugoslavia, Bulgarians were not Yugoslavians and never entered that category.

Keeping this in mind, Bulgarians have strong arguments to claim Northern Macedonia. Local Fyrom people are ethnically Bulgarians, they do not have any state or ethnic background separate from Bulgaria. Finally, the city of Ohrid served as the capital city of the old Bulgar state for a while.
Fyromians are even more Bulgarian than the Montenegrins are Serbs in that regard since Montenegrins still have centuries of history separate than Serbia, all the while Macedonian state is a recent fabrication.

Maybe we had legit claims 100 years ago, but the people there changed a lot. I don't think we should claim Macedonia as Bulgarian if they don't want to be part of our country. I'm here just to point out the similarities between us. For example, yesterday I was looking at this thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-t-into-Nordic and 2 links made an impression on me. First I thought that I shouldn't post them here to avoid being too insistent, but today I see that Crn Volk said that the Bulgarians in Macedonia are 1%, so I guess it's time to post them.

First link is the average genetic makeup of different European countries according to Eupedia.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml



Second is a map of the subclades of R1a, which is considered to be the Slavic haplogroup of Eastern Europe. Of course R1a isn't exclusive to Slavic people, but the European branches are mostly connected to Slavic people. You can check that out with the first link by sorting the countries by R1a. The ones with highest R1a percentage are Poland, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia and so on.



A little bonus that I would like to add is this study that compares Macedonian samples to other South Slavic samples :

http://www.academia.edu/14205263/Gen...c_of_Macedonia

"The Macedonian population has the largest genetic distance
against the Croatian population (0.2643), while the lowest against
Bulgarian population (0.0815) (Table 4).The neighbor-joining
consensus tree constructed based on the results of the genetic
distance analysis shows that the population of the Macedonian
ethnic origin has possible highest similarity with the Bulgarian
populations, and not such dissimilarity with the cluster which
consists Bosnian and Herzegovinian-Serbian-Croatian populations,
while the Kosovo population create a separate group (Fig. 2)."

[Dušan]

FYROM is not crucially interesting for Serbs. We respect them as our southern neighbors with whom they have a similar language, culture, religion.

Serbian national priority is Republika Srpska in BiH and Montenegro. These are real ethnic Serb territories.

[Uski]

Maybe we had legit claims 100 years ago, but the people there changed a lot. I don't think we should claim Macedonia as Bulgarian if they don't want to be part of our country. I'm here just to point out the similarities between us. For example, yesterday I was looking at this thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-t-into-Nordic and 2 links made an impression on me. First I thought that I shouldn't post them here to avoid being too insistent, but today I see that Crn Volk said that the Bulgarians in Macedonia are 1%, so I guess it's time to post them.

First link is the average genetic makeup of different European countries according to Eupedia.

I1 I2*/I2a I2b R1a R1b G J2 J*/J1 E1b1b T Q N
4 20 2 17 11 5 11 3 23.5 1.5 0.5 0.5 Bulgaria
3 23 1.5 13.5 12.5 4 14 2 21.5 1.5 0.5 0.5 Macedonia

Second is a map of the subclades of R1a, which is considered to be the Slavic haplogroup of Eastern Europe. Of course R1a isn't exclusive to Slavic people, but the European branches are mostly connected to Slavic people. You can check that out with the first link by sorting the countries by R1a. The ones with highest R1a percentage are Poland, Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia and so on.



A little bonus that I would like to add is this study that compares Macedonian samples to other South Slavic samples :

http://www.academia.edu/14205263/Gen...c_of_Macedonia

"The Macedonian population has the largest genetic distance
against the Croatian population (0.2643), while the lowest against
Bulgarian population (0.0815) (Table 4).The neighbor-joining
consensus tree constructed based on the results of the genetic
distance analysis shows that the population of the Macedonian
ethnic origin has possible highest similarity with the Bulgarian
populations, and not such dissimilarity with the cluster which
consists Bosnian and Herzegovinian-Serbian-Croatian populations,
while the Kosovo population create a separate group (Fig. 2)."

I personally know guys from bitola who have personally told me they believe theyre bulgarians secretly, but are afraid of the stigma in their communities if they declared that up front. Their family are immigrants from Lerin , so theyre very nationalist, if they flund out their kids are bulgarians theyd kill them. There is a huge bulgarophobia associated with macedonian nationalism. While there is quite a lot of serbophilia, especially with the older generation

[Crimea-Khan]

FYROM is not crucially interesting for Serbs. We respect them as our southern neighbors with whom they have a similar language, culture, religion.

Serbian national priority is Republika Srpska in BiH and Montenegro. These are real ethnic Serb territories.

No this always historic Bulgarian land, and obviously Kosovo is Shiqiptar. Serbian land is Croatia, Slovenia and don't stress the Muslims today either

[Uski]

FYROM is not crucially interesting for Serbs. We respect them as our southern neighbors with whom they have a similar language, culture, religion.

Serbian national priority is Republika Srpska in BiH and Montenegro. These are real ethnic Serb territories.

Well thats fair enough, but guys like Seagull have an agenda, they want macedonians to be serbs too, and they support an independent macedonian identity just to fuck with bulgarians. Obv macedonians dont need support from anyone, but some nationalists just cant get enough. I
Its the same thing like what we albanians are doing in montenegro, support their identity so we dont end up in serbia. Divide and conquer

[-Invictus-]

I personally know guys from bitola who have personally told me they believe theyre bulgarians secretly, but are afraid of the stigma in their communities if they declared that up front. Their family are immigrants from Lerin , so theyre very nationalist, if they flund out their kids are bulgarians theyd kill them. There is a huge bulgarophobia associated with macedonian nationalism. While there is quite a lot of serbophilia, especially with the older generation

Yep. That's what bothers me the most. One of the foundations of Macedonian nationalism is separating from anything related to Bulgaria and even open hatred towards us. I thought it wasn't so bad, but after spending some time in this forum and reading some of the comments of Macedonians under YouTube videos, now I get why some Bulgarians think of them as "traitors". I'm not that harsh in my judgement though and I think they are just confused and their dislike towards us is not completely unreasonable. It's absolutely logical for some Macedonians to hate us when from young age they're told that Bulgarians are some kind of Tatar invaders, who stole their history and tried to make them Bulgarians, even though they are descendants of Alexander the Great. From recent genetic data, it looks like Bulgarians are descendants of Alexander as much as Macedonians. I just hope that more of the young Macedonians are open minded and search for answers online. There are enough historical records showing the history of their lands and enough genetic studies pointing out to their closest ethnic group. The ultimate goal is not making Macedonia Bulgarian, but rather Macedonians understanding their Bulgarian roots and having a friendly relation with us, just like Germany and Austria.