Attn: Greek and Bulgar trolls of the Macedonian section

[Uski]

Yep. That's what bothers me the most. One of the foundations of Macedonian nationalism is separating from anything related to Bulgaria and even open hatred towards us. I thought it wasn't so bad, but after spending some time in this forum and reading some of the comments of Macedonians under YouTube videos, now I get why some Bulgarians think of them as "traitors". I'm not that harsh in my judgement though and I think they are just confused and their dislike towards us is not completely unreasonable. It's absolutely logical for some Macedonians to hate us when from young age they're told that Bulgarians are some kind of Tatar invaders, who stole their history and tried to make them Bulgarians, even though they are descendants of Alexander the Great. From recent genetic data, it looks like Bulgarians are descendants of Alexander as much as Macedonians. I just hope that more of the young Macedonians are open minded and search for answers online. There are enough historical records showing the history of their lands and enough genetic studies pointing out to their closest ethnic group. The ultimate goal is not making Macedonia Bulgarian, but rather Macedonians understanding their Bulgarian roots and having a friendly relation with us, just like Germany and Austria.

Well i mean that should come with time, nationalism isnt as strong now as it used to be. Paradoxically, its not the young people living in NMK who are the most nationalist, its their cousins in Australia. Pure etnicki, antickis. Crn volk and Vojnik aint shit compared to some of the guys i know(no offense). Best i can compare it too is the macedonian truth forum. And i mean no disrespect i admire their passion, but that sort of mentality cant work in modern north macedonia. Maybe macedonia 20 years ago yes, but idk about today.

[-Invictus-]

Well i mean that should come with time, nationalism isnt as strong now as it used to be. Paradoxically, its not the young people living in NMK who are the most nationalist, its their cousins in Australia. Pure etnicki, antickis. Crn volk and Vojnik aint shit compared to some of the guys i know(no offense). Best i can compare it too is the macedonian truth forum. And i mean no disrespect i admire their passion, but that sort of mentality cant work in modern north macedonia. Maybe macedonia 20 years ago yes, but idk about today.

Lol, don't know about this forum and honestly it's better if I keep it that way. Open minded Macedonians will find their truth with time. From my own experience of searching about the origins of Bulgars, with time it gets easier to seed out unbiased articles from lunatics. Everything is in the sources attached to their claims. Also "search Google for image" is a very powerful tool. About the Macedonian dudes here, Crn Volk is just a bit confused, since it's kinda contradictory to know that both of your grandfathers served the Bulgarian army and also create a thread about the "Bulgar terror in Macedonia". Vojnik and Hahns are cool. Johny P is ancient Macedon fanboy. I find him more amusing than insulting. Overall no hard feelings for the MK boys here. If you want to see ignorant Macedonians hating on Bulgaria, you can check out the comments under videos like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4i2jelY4c

[Crn Volk]

Lol, don't know about this forum and honestly it's better if I keep it that way. Open minded Macedonians will find their truth with time. From my own experience of searching about the origins of Bulgars, with time it gets easier to seed out unbiased articles from lunatics. Everything is in the sources attached to their claims. Also "search Google for image" is a very powerful tool. About the Macedonian dudes here, Crn Volk is just a bit confused, since it's kinda contradictory to know that both of your grandfathers served the Bulgarian army and also create a thread about the "Bulgar terror in Macedonia". Vojnik and Hahns are cool. Johny P is ancient Macedon fanboy. I find him more amusing than insulting. Overall no hard feelings for the MK boys here. If you want to see ignorant Macedonians hating on Bulgaria, you can check out the comments under videos like this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4i2jelY4c

Here's another thread of mine

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ndrov-together

Hopefully Bulgaria stops with its threats and we can get back to reconciliation

[MegaArgus1]

I can say now that im Donald Trump, but im not. Sometimes people don't want to hear truth cuz they don't want their ilusion to be destroyed.

You know but they are not aware, so you are telling them otherwise they will leave this world not knowing how they were. What divine gift you possess?

[Uski]

Here's another thread of mine

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ndrov-together

Hopefully Bulgaria stops with its threats and we can get back to reconciliation

Thats beautiful man. Not gonna lie, that put a smile on my face. + Petros trolling in the first comment lol, (they dont want you to be friends, divide and conquer) one love mates

[-Invictus-]

Here's another thread of mine

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ndrov-together

Hopefully Bulgaria stops with its threats and we can get back to reconciliation

Nice. Hope this trend grows in the upcoming years. The threats of not supporting your EU membership are mostly, because of historical reasons. I don't think it's productive, but I see where they are coming from.

https://europeanwesternbalkans.com/2...nterpretation/

"“If the mixed history commission does recommence its work by June and the authorities in Skopje continue to falsify history, Bulgaria will not agree to start pre-accession talks with North Macedonia,” said Bulgarian MEP Andrey Kovachev, a member of Bulgarian PM Boyko Borisov’s GERB party in an interview for Euroactiv."

The next one is harsher :

"Among the demands, Bulgaria reiterated that North Macedonia must drop its claims that there is a Macedonian minority in Bulgaria and insisted that the EU does not use the term “Macedonian language” during talks but instead “the official language of the Republic of North Macedonia.”"

About the language I wish there was a simple answer, but there isn't one. Also the official language of Austria is German. That doesn't make them dependent on Germany :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language

"Macedonian developed out of the western dialects of the East South Slavic dialect continuum, whose earliest recorded form is Old Church Slavonic. During much of its history, this dialect continuum was called "Bulgarian", although in the 19th century, its western dialects came to be known separately as "Macedonian". Standard Macedonian was codified in 1945 and has developed modern literature since.[7]"

"Macedonian and Bulgarian are divergent from the remaining South Slavic languages in that they do not use noun cases (except for the vocative, and apart from some traces of once productive inflections still found scattered throughout these two) and have lost the infinitive.[12] They are also the only Slavic languages with any definite articles (unlike standard Bulgarian, which uses only one article, standard Macedonian as well as some south-eastern Bulgarian dialects[13] have a set of three deictic articles: unspecified, proximal and distal definite article). Macedonian and Bulgarian are the only Indo-European languages that make use of the narrative mood.[14][15]"

"The latter half of the 18th century saw the rise of modern literary Macedonian through the written use of Macedonian dialects referred to as "Bulgarian" by writers.[22]"

[22] Source pdf - http://humstatic.uchicago.edu/mahima...Friedman01.pdf

Author - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Friedman

"The authors of this period in both Macedonia and Bulgaria called their vernacular language "Bulgarian"." at the 2nd page of the pdf at the end of paragraph (1).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Macedonian_Matters

"Za makedonckite raboti (Cyrillic script: За македонцките работи, English translation: On Macedonian Matters) is a book written by Krste Misirkov and published in 1903 in Sofia, Bulgaria. The book presents the author's views towards the Macedonian Question, and explores the sense of national belonging and nеed for affirmation of the Macedonians as a separate people. The book marked the first complete outline of the Macedonian language as a separate and proposed the need for its codification."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krste_Misirkov

"However, in 1907 he began publishing predominantly articles, written from a Bulgarian nationalist perspective. During the First World War he became a member of the local parliament in Bessarabia as a representative of the Bulgarian minority there. Misirkov reverted to Macedonian nationalism for a short in 1919. During the 1920s his views changed again, and he encouraged the Macedonian Slavs to adopt a Bulgarian national identity.[6][7][8] Because Misirkov expressed conflicting views about the national identity of the Macedonians Slavs at different points in his life, his national affiliation and legacy remains a matter of dispute between Bulgaria and North Macedonia."

I guess the compromise should be that modern Macedonian is recognized as a separate language by Bulgaria, but Macedonia should also recognize that it originated from Old Bulgarian. If we are going to bring up the medieval Ohrid literary school as the foundation of the Macedonian language :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohrid_Literary_School

"The Ohrid Literary School or Ohrid-Devol Literary school was one of the two major cultural centres of the First Bulgarian Empire, along with the Preslav Literary School (Pliska Literary School).[1]"

About the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria, I find it hard to believe that these people are not Macedonians from Vardar who moved there or Bulgarians who adopted the Macedonian idea. As I've said before, the village of my grandparents is 12 km away from the Macedonian border. I've never heard any story of ethnic Macedonians living there or in the neighboring villages. Quite the opposite, some of the relatives of my grandma ended up on the other side of the border. I guess the minorities should be recognized though. If they think they are Macedonians, then they are. Just like the Bulgarian history of Macedonia isn't a valid reason for claiming any Macedonian land, then Macedonian minorities aren't a valid reason for Macedonian claims on Bulgarian land.

This post may not be very pleasant for some Macedonians, but that's my honest view on the topic. If you disagree, feel free to correct me and if possible, accompany the counterarguments with sources.

[PAGANE]

And we did not fight to reconcile.
You have to learn that when there are controversial issues, they are resolved by sitting at the table and the people who are competent in them solve them. And what did you do ?! You ran away, you hid under the pretext that elections were coming. What will your choices change? Just withdraw from the application to join the EU. Whoever comes to power in Northern Macedonia must resolve the historical and linguistic issues that have become a problem and will be an obstacle for Bulgaria not to veto.

[PAGANE]

Just as for years in Skopje, they appropriated part of the history of ancient Greece, sewing it to their coats to legitimize an identity associated with the ancient people. Today, Northern Macedonia wants Bulgaria to give it Bulgarian history in order to become North Macedonian and again in order to build an identity this time not ancient but medieval and Renaissance. Well, there was no such Macedonian identity. Yes, we have a common history because you are part of the Medieval Bulgarian state and the Bulgarian people, which was formed several centuries before our statehood was destroyed by the Ottomans, but the people still remained Bulgarian within the ethnic borders of medieval Bulgaria. But this story is only Bulgarian and this should be well remembered in Skopje
Tomorrow you will decide that you are Ottomans and you will decide to claim things from the history of today's Turkey, which is the successor of the Ottoman Empire only because as part of the Bulgarian people you were within the borders of this empire as millet, infidels, gyauri-epithets with was called the Christian population in Ottoman times.

[-Invictus-]

Just as for years in Skopje, they appropriated part of the history of ancient Greece, sewing it to their coats to legitimize an identity associated with the ancient people. Today, Northern Macedonia wants Bulgaria to give it Bulgarian history in order to become North Macedonian and again in order to build an identity this time not ancient but medieval and Renaissance. Well, there was no such Macedonian identity. Yes, we have a common history because you are part of the Medieval Bulgarian state and the Bulgarian people, which was formed several centuries before our statehood was destroyed by the Ottomans, but the people still remained Bulgarian within the ethnic borders of medieval Bulgaria. But this story is only Bulgarian and this should be well remembered in Skopje
Tomorrow you will decide that you are Ottomans and you will decide to claim things from the history of today's Turkey, which is the successor of the Ottoman Empire only because as part of the Bulgarian people you were within the borders of this empire as millet, infidels, gyauri-epithets with was called the Christian population in Ottoman times.

No need to point fingers. It's better to have a rational discussion, rather than blaming and saying big words. To sum it up - the Slavic Macedonian identity was part of the Bulgarian identity from 9th century until early 19th century. If our Macedonian friends here disagree, then they should present evidence to prove it wrong.

[Uski]

I dont get why macedonians are so adamant about beig different from bulgarians, honestly. I hope they know serbia and greece use this to their advantage, if macedonia was part of bulgaria man you guys would be a force to be reckoned with. Like Macedonians would gain so much more history if they did that. Fucking hell, idk i understand standing your ground and all that but idk