Question to native speakers of Dutch and German: how much can you understand each others' languages?

[Tooting Carmen]

Just as speakers of Portuguese, Spanish and Italian can most of the time understand each other (if they speak slowly and clearly enough, that is), is the same also true of speakers of Dutch and German?

[The Lawspeaker]

If spoken - it depends on where the speaker is from but generally I understand 99 percent of it if spoken in Hochdeutsch. I can read most of it as well, there are just some antiquated (from a Dutch words) and expressions that German retained. There is, of course, the problem of false friends but if you re-read the line, you'll be able to pick up again.

[Tooting Carmen]

If spoken - it depends on where the speaker is from but generally I understand 99 percent of it if spoken in Hochdeutsch. I can read most of it as well, there are just some antiquated (from a Dutch words) and expressions that German retained. There is, of course, the problem of false friends but if you re-read the line, you'll be able to pick up again.

Have you formally studied German as such?

[The Lawspeaker]

Have you formally studied German as such?

Yes, I have but I haven't used it much so writing is a nightmare by now and the grammar. They slipped my mind. It's just that Dutch doesn't use that system and hasn't used it for, at least, 150 years.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, I have but I haven't used it much so writing is a nightmare by now and the grammar. They slipped my mind. It's just that Dutch doesn't use that system and hasn't used it for, at least, 150 years.

The funny thing is that, as a (quasi) native Spanish-speaker, I have formally studied and now work with Portuguese but not Italian, yet still I sometimes find Italian easier to understand when spoken than Portuguese is (especially Iberian Portuguese speakers - most Brazilians are OK).

[The Lawspeaker]

As you can see: the way old Dutch worked is not that different from German. It's just that we stopped using it ages ago. Dutch spelling too was simplified over the years but you can still see some things that resemble German - let us take the formulation "In the name of the King" as an example:

"In naam des Konings"

"Im Namen des Königs"

The first one (Dutch) is antiquated and you'd only see it in legal documents (normal grammar: "In de naam van de Koning"). The second one, would be normal German grammar. Spelling wise too, German is much more conservative than Dutch: "Nederlandsch" (antiquated as this spelling was dropped in the great spelling reform of 1946 (for political reasons: Dutch spelling was simply "too German" - a process that was finished with the last purge in 1954) - now "Nederlands") vs "niederländisch" being one example of many.

[Tooting Carmen]

As you can see: the way old Dutch worked is not that different from German. It's just that we stopped using it ages ago. Dutch spelling too was simplified over the years but you can still see some things that resemble German - let us take the formulation "In the name of the King" as an example:

"In naam des Konings"

"Im Namen des Königs"

The first one (Dutch) is antiquated and you'd only see it in legal documents (normal grammar: "In de naam van de Koning"). The second one, would be normal German grammar. Spelling wise too, German is much more conservative than Dutch: "Nederlandsch" (antiquated as this spelling was dropped in the great spelling reform of 1946 (for political reasons: Dutch spelling was simply "too German" - a process that was finished with the last purge in 1954) - now "Nederlands") vs "niederländisch" being one example of many.

Am I also right that, as well as not having cases like you just said, Dutch doesn't have quite as many really lengthy words and compounds as German does?

[The Lawspeaker]

Am I also right that, as well as not having cases like you just said, Dutch doesn't have quite as many really lengthy words and compounds as German does?

We do.. but there seems to be an increasing move to stepping away from that, rather unique, feature as well and following the Anglosphere. It's something I, personally, don't approve of.

[Tooting Carmen]

We do.. but there seems to be an increasing move to stepping away from that, rather unique, feature as well and following the Anglosphere. It's something I, personally, don't approve of.

I remember reading an article by an Italian author/journalist (I'll see if I can find and post it) which said that, around the world, people are increasingly writing in foreign languages as if they are thinking in English, using Anglicised syntax and constructions and neglecting local references.

[The Lawspeaker]

I remember reading an article by an Italian author/journalist (I'll see if I can find and post it) which said that, around the world, people are increasingly writing in foreign languages as if they are thinking in English, using Anglicised syntax and constructions and neglecting local references.

I agree. My own spoken and written Dutch is being Anglicised as well and I don't like it either so I think the government should take very conservative measures when it comes to the protection of the Dutch languages and restrict the use of English in our institutions. Maybe we need something like an Académie française for the Netherlands to protect the language from further pollution. I think that we should also leave the Dutch Language Union and return to the pre-war spelling and grammar situation (basically moving us closer towards German).

Basically I think the Netherlands (I don't care what Flanders or Suriname do) should return the pre-war language. With cases like this:

Case	Masculine	Feminine	Neuter
Nominative (sg.)	de kleine worm	de kleine daad	het kleine brood
Genitive (sg.)	des kleinen worms	der kleine daad	des kleinen broods
Dative (sg.)	den kleinen worm	de kleine daad	het kleine brood
Accusative (sg.)	den kleinen worm	de kleine daad	het kleine brood
Nominative (pl.)	de kleine wormen	de kleine daden	de kleine broden
Genitive (pl.)	der kleine wormen	der kleine daden	der kleine broden
Dative (pl.)	den kleinen wormen	den kleinen daden	den kleinen broden
Accusative (pl.)	de kleine wormen	de kleine daden	de kleine broden

And using the pre-1934 Spelling-De Vries en Te Winkel (dating back to 1863)