Balkan Turks Y-DNA 2020

[Kaspias]

This is an interesting sample. My Caucasian and EEF score is higher and my EHG score is obviously 2 times higher. But I get roughly the half from everything else (E-Siberian, Ancestral Altaic), and about a third from Near-East, a quarter from Tungus Altaic and South-Central Asian. And my Southeast Asian percentage is actually higher but I tend to get it on almost every calculator. But I don't know on what level it is comparable to my ancestry (not so much I believe). Of course this is on k23b

Where can I find more samples like this one (about settlers, Turkic people, Huns, etc whatever is comparable to my ancestry)?

MDLP K23b oracles are not very good most of time, but calculator as a whole very useful for us as it has decent components for Central Asia.

Here are some random Balkan Turks:


Kardzhali (R1a - no clade tested)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	32.49
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	19.16
3	European_Early_Farmers	13.99
4	South_Central_Asian	11.09
5	Near_East	6.42
6	Tungus-Altaic	5.19
7	Ancestral_Altaic	4.25
8	East_Siberian	3.29
9	South_East_Asian	1.78
10	Paleo_Siberian	1.35
11	Amerindian	0.89
12	Austronesian	0.09

Silistra (J-M267)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	34.87
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	22.07
3	European_Early_Farmers	16.54
4	South_Central_Asian	5.79
5	Near_East	4.47
6	Ancestral_Altaic	3.12
7	North_African	2.99
8	East_Siberian	2.01
9	Paleo_Siberian	1.71
10	South_Indian	1.4
11	Austronesian	1.21
12	Tungus-Altaic	1.16
13	Melano_Polynesian	0.92
14	Amerindian	0.8
15	South_East_Asian	0.64
16	Australoid	0.29

Haskovo (N-M231)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	34.21
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	18.85
3	European_Early_Farmers	17.54
4	South_Central_Asian	8.83
5	Near_East	8.75
6	North_African	1.96
7	Tungus-Altaic	1.89
8	Paleo_Siberian	1.77
9	Ancestral_Altaic	1.57
10	South_East_Asian	1.15
11	East_African	0.93
12	South_Indian	0.91
13	East_Siberian	0.89
14	Austronesian	0.39
15	Subsaharian	0.36

Razgrad (R-DF27)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	33.29
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	23.81
3	European_Early_Farmers	19.9
4	South_Central_Asian	5.99
5	Ancestral_Altaic	3.12
6	Austronesian	2.73
7	Near_East	2.64
8	South_Indian	2.6
9	East_Siberian	1.79
10	North_African	1.28
11	Arctic	1.01
12	Amerindian	0.64
13	Subsaharian	0.57
14	Archaic_Human	0.4
15	Khoisan	0.11
16	South_East_Asian	0.1
17	Australoid	0.01

Kardzhali, Mountaineer (I2a-L161)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	32.97
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	22.35
3	European_Early_Farmers	12.86
4	South_Central_Asian	6.51
5	Near_East	6.08
6	Tungus-Altaic	5.58
7	East_Siberian	4.11
8	North_African	3.41
9	Ancestral_Altaic	3.17
10	South_East_Asian	1.71
11	Austronesian	0.79
12	Australoid	0.23
13	Melano_Polynesian	0.21
14	Paleo_Siberian	0.02

North Macedonia, Radovish

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	35.18
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	23.14
3	European_Early_Farmers	16.59
4	South_Central_Asian	8.33
5	Near_East	4.71
6	North_African	3.13
7	Ancestral_Altaic	2.57
8	East_Siberian	2.17
9	Tungus-Altaic	1.83
10	South_Indian	1.18
11	Melano_Polynesian	0.8
12	Khoisan	0.22
13	African_Pygmy	0.14

1/2 Aydos, 1/2 Langaza (O)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	31.46
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	18.08
3	European_Early_Farmers	14.6
4	Near_East	9.45
5	South_Central_Asian	7.94
6	Ancestral_Altaic	4.03
7	East_Siberian	3.29
8	Tungus-Altaic	2.89
9	North_African	2.82
10	Amerindian	1.13
11	Paleo_Siberian	1.07
12	Arctic	0.84
13	Australoid	0.71
14	South_East_Asian	0.57
15	East_African	0.43
16	Archaic_Human	0.34
17	Melano_Polynesian	0.24
18	Subsaharian	0.11

Kavala (R-YR1013)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	34.58
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	24.75
3	European_Early_Farmers	17.22
4	Near_East	8.75
5	South_Central_Asian	4.37
6	Subsaharian	1.78
7	South_Indian	1.43
8	North_African	1.32
9	East_Siberian	1.24
10	Amerindian	0.98
11	East_African	0.8
12	Tungus-Altaic	0.67
13	Ancestral_Altaic	0.51
14	African_Pygmy	0.39
15	Melano_Polynesian	0.33
16	Archaic_Human	0.27
17	South_East_Asian	0.24
18	Austronesian	0.2
19	Paleo_Siberian	0.09
20	Khoisan	0.04
21	Arctic	0.04

1/2 Kilkis, 1/4 Karnobat, 1/4 Drama (J2)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	36.87
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	22.26
3	European_Early_Farmers	13.15
4	Near_East	7.26
5	South_Central_Asian	6.03
6	South_Indian	3.22
7	North_African	2.44
8	Ancestral_Altaic	2.43
9	Amerindian	2.01
10	Melano_Polynesian	1.04
11	Austronesian	1
12	East_African	0.94
13	Tungus-Altaic	0.77
14	East_Siberian	0.57

Xanthi (I2a)

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	38.52
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	21.79
3	European_Early_Farmers	12.04
4	North_African	7.04
5	South_Central_Asian	6.1
6	Near_East	3.39
7	Ancestral_Altaic	2.9
8	Paleo_Siberian	2.54
9	Austronesian	1.59
10	Arctic	1.46
11	Subsaharian	0.85
12	South_East_Asian	0.7
13	Australoid	0.48
14	Archaic_Human	0.28
15	Amerindian	0.26
16	South_Indian	0.06

[Bender1999]

Tatar migration to Balkans dates the same as first settler Yörüks, even before than them if we count pre-Ottoman Turkic populations. The spreading during the 1500s was roughly 70% Yörük and 30% Tatar. After 1500s Tatars registered as Yörüks and identified as regular Turks which resulted in the melting of both communities in the same pot throughout time. An average Balkan Turk already had both Tatar and Oghuz blood before Dobruja migrations but recent(before and after Russo-Turkish War) migration of Crimean Tatars boosted it.

I'm going to check y-DNA sharing of Crimean Tatars tomorrow, can't recall now.

Ah ok,the only thing i knew was the coastal region of Romania/Urkrain and some regions of northern Bulgaria were predominantly Tatar. If we speak about crimean tatars, they had definitely Oghuz influence comparing to the Kazan Tatars. I don’t mean during the Ottoman empire, but they have definitely Pecheneg influence. Some of them settled in Anatolia after Malazgirt, some went from byzantine to selcuk army, but what happened to others? Or Khazars, halacoglu claimed there were of Oghuz origin, but i am not convinced, i need more proofs. For example i really doubt that the high east asian admixture in your family came from Tatars, nowadays maybe rare in Balkan but dont forget that the most of BalkanTurks live in Turkey now. So i dont thing saying Balkan turks have low turkic influence is right. Your region was the new home for rebellious Turkmens, especially Thrace. But just my thoughts, maybe other have different points which are more convincing.

[Kaspias]

Ah ok,the only thing i knew was the coastal region of Romania/Urkrain and some regions of northern Bulgaria were predominantly Tatar. If we speak about crimean tatars, they had definitely Oghuz influence comparing to the Kazan Tatars. I don’t mean during the Ottoman empire, but they have definitely Pecheneg influence. Some of them settled in Anatolia after Malazgirt, some went from byzantine to selcuk army, but what happened to others? Or Khazars, halacoglu claimed there were of Oghuz origin, but i am not convinced, i need more proofs. For example i really doubt that the high east asian admixture in your family came from Tatars, nowadays maybe rare in Balkan but dont forget that the most of BalkanTurks live in Turkey now. So i dont thing saying Balkan turks have low turkic influence is right. Your region was the new home for rebellious Turkmens, especially Thrace. But just my thoughts, maybe other have different points which are more convincing.

This is the only creditable y-DNA study on Crimean Tatars I was able to find:




By thinking Coastal Tatars are also included in this study, ratio of Q would be between 5% and 10% among Steppe Tatars. Besides Q they probably boosted some other HG's in the region as they have a huge contribution to the formation of the Balkan Turk community. I don't really know about Oghuz admixture among Steppe Tatars but we know that Coastal Tatars are Oghuz and Mountaineers roughly half Oghuz, I believe Halaçoğlu were meaning it. Otherwise, I don't think Steppe Tatars spoke Oghuz before the interaction with Ottomans, and their language standardized(almost) thanks to Coastal Tatars.


We can observe Turkic admixture of Balkan Turks in a PCA:



See this plot that I have a separate line from Siberia, it is because of additional Uralic admixture I have. But other individuals; Varna, Thracian and Macedonian directly shifts toward Siberia. So, there is three major input:

-Oghuz
-Siberia input
-Ugric input

1. Almost all individuals carry some Oghuz, from 10% to 80% I have seen so far.
2. Siberia shift can be explainable by early Tatars who distributed all over Balkans. Their SCA admixture should be absorbed among Oghuz, and Siberian isolated apparently.
3. Ugric input concentrated on Ludogorie and either should point out pre-Ottoman Turks(See: Cumans, Bulgars) or Tatars settled there. But the thing is these Tatars should have a different origin than the Tatars I mentioned above.

Speaking for myself, my Turkic admixture models like roughly half Oghuz and half "alien" which shifts towards Siberia highly, and slightly to the Ural at the same time. See the PCA that having both Uralic and Siberia shifts at the same time caused to open a separated line.

At the end of the day, I have three types of these Turkic roots settled in Balkans and Oghuz comes first in the rank with almost half sharing. (It was something like 50% Oghuz, 40% Siberia, 10% Ugor. @Deniz who is from Ludogorie got 75% Ugor and 25% Oghuz. @Thracian who is from Thrace and Macedonia got 65% Oghuz and 35% Siberia...)

Now let's try to match our autosomal and history knowledge with y-DNA:

• There is only a haplogroup which is a sign of Siberian ancestry in the y-DNA chart. But it is almost 10% in mt-DNA. I'm aware of early Tatars used in the military as permanent soldiers, so the origin of the Siberian shift supposedly comes from maternal lineage and have no huge contribution to y-DNA.
• Pre-Ottoman admixture(if any) might actually come from native mixes, I mean, those Cumans and so on should be already mixed with Wallachians and Slavic speakers at that time period. We know that they were present in Dobrudja, but Dobrudja was almost 80% Turkish before the Russo-Turkish Wars. Neither natives nor Pre-Ottoman Turkic disappeared from the region but probably mixed with Oghuz speakers. So, they actually really should have an influence on HG spreading of the region, but it is probably HG's of the natives they mixed. A similar case applies to Thrace; Pecheneks. Our knowledge on them less than Cumans, but there has been a Greek individual found in Balıkesir, with haplogroup Q-L332, specifically Kipchak/Cuman clade. This should prove their presence in the region, at least.
• Oghuz's are an interesting case in terms of HG's because you can expect that they brought any haplogroup throughout their migration way. If we are going to focus on N, I highly believe that it's origin is Oghuz, but also need to mention that other Turkic's might carry it too. Still, they seem to make up most of Turkic y-DNA sharing. Influence they provided to mt-DNA cannot exactly be determined as they overlap with native HG's.

Don't forget these all comments only on Turkic HG's, not total amount.

[Bender1999]

I also dont think that Crimean Tatars were Oghuz speaking before, but considering the history and area i think they got oghuz genetic(and cultural) input during the history. Dont forget, that some Turkics, Kipchak and Oghuz, had Ugric admix. Turkics had just more east asian and were sometimes more southern(iranic?) shifted. Ugrics have „just“ big Siberian, never saw one who had more than 5% east asian. Cumans, Pechenegs, Bulgars etc, who were before Ottomans in Balkan were never more than over 50% east asianadmixed(in my opinion)we saw once Khazars who were like afghan turkmens/Uzbeks just more „european“ or northern shifted. In contrast to Avars(probably preturkuc altaics) they scored sometimes up to 70% east asian admix(btw do we have hunnic examples ?and sorry, they were 100, ok lets say 99,999% turkic). I really dont know about how and where the preottoman turkics settled in Balkans, i cant say something ablut that but i believe what you say. And about haplogroups, i have this imteresting information about them:


0BF409E7-DEAF-4952-A1C1-4A6E42FA3796.jpeg
7CD5E64B-3A09-45EA-AEFC-FAE463480008.jpeg3AD4C8E1-17B0-42A1-9121-D88766ABC488.png
D7086BAB-37F5-4AFF-BBF1-954BD61C79C4.jpeg

I once saw a source which claimed crimean tatars had more Q, also once saw a chart wher IranAzerbaijanis had 15%Q. Unfortunately i dont find them. So i can just say i „saw“, i dont wanna say something wrong. The case for me is, why Balkan and Anatolian Turks have more N than Q and why Azerbaijan, Iran and Chorasan(Turkmenistan/Afghanistan) oghuz turks have more Q than N. Lets say Balkan Turks got it from Tatars/preottoman turkics but whats about Anatolian Turks? Ok there live between 2-6 Mio. Tatars, but i think you tell it if you get tested,so also non Tatars show sometimes N.

First is cuvash
Second is lipka tatar
Third is china tatar
Fourth is kazan tatar