Balkan Turks Y-DNA 2020

[Bender1999]

Afshars 57% L, 13% Q, 3% N, 13% J2a, 10% E (73% Central Asian haplogroups)
Older Turkish village: 25% N, 25% J2a, 30% R1b, 3% G
From Gockumen 2008, Ethnohistorical and genetic survey of four Central Anatolian settlements

In Turkey, Q is concentrated mostly in east Anatolia while N is more heavy in west Anatolia, pointing to Türkmens and Yörüks respectively. Attachment 99909

Two turkic tribes settled in north Greece, Yörüks in Macedonia and Konyars in Thessaly, from Konya in south-west Turkey. The Konyars probably also had Yörük origin. The turkic villages in west Macedonia had a mixed Yörük/Konyar population and adjacent to those were an equal number of greek-muslim villages, the Vallahades, who went also to Turkey after the population exchange.

Yörüks settled after 1354 in Central Macedonia mostly for peace-keeping and suppressing of rebellions, while in Thessaly one Byzantine with one Norman feudal lord were fighting against another Byzantine and a Serbian feudal lord and locals were displeased so they asked for help from Turks and they sent Turahan who was close by and ended the fight, restored peace and brought Turkish families from Ikonya to establish settlements, especially in east Thessaly. He also built the first mosque in the area outside Dereli where I am from.

J2a haplogroup in general must also be a major player for Turkish settlements in the Balkans, as in east Thessaly, Bitola and Karadağ. Attachment 99910

This Afshar village were in my knowledge somewhere in central anatolia, so idk about eastern provinces and haplogroups.

[Kaspias]

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Afshars 57% L, 13% Q, 3% N, 13% J2a, 10% E (73% Central Asian haplogroups)
Older Turkish village: 25% N, 25% J2a, 30% R1b, 3% G
From Gockumen 2008, Ethnohistorical and genetic survey of four Central Anatolian settlements

In Turkey, Q is concentrated mostly in east Anatolia while N is more heavy in west Anatolia, pointing to Türkmens and Yörüks respectively. Dispersion_yoruk_et_turkmène_en_anatolie.jpg

Q is concentrated around Eastern Anatolia because clade is mostly L245, which cannot be attributed to Turkic origin directly. One individual from Erzincan who is L330 has Tatar background and one M25 from Kayseri has Afshar(he is AG member Afshar) origin. N is present all over Anatolia and among all known tribes, not only Western Anatolia.



This is a decent map. But there is a misconception of terms. Türkmen is not equal to Yörük in historical meaning. Türkmens were kind of late-comers while Yörüks were early Beylik Türks. So, Yörüks were already present all over Anatolia before Türkmens appear, and after arriving of Türkmens they were given right to settle wherever they want. Entire Anatolia and Balkans should be affected from Türkmen migration at the same parallel, I even think that source of Iranic input among Balkan Turks is those Türkmens.

Two turkic tribes settled in north Greece, Yörüks in Macedonia and Konyars in Thessaly, from Konya in south-west Turkey. The Konyars probably also had Yörük origin. The turkic villages in west Macedonia had a mixed Yörük/Konyar population and adjacent to those were an equal number of greek-muslim villages, the Vallahades, who went also to Turkey after the population exchange.

Yörüks settled after 1354 in Central Macedonia mostly for peace-keeping and suppressing of rebellions, while in Thessaly one Byzantine with one Norman feudal lord were fighting against another Byzantine and a Serbian feudal lord and locals were displeased so they asked for help from Turks and they sent Turahan who was close by and ended the fight, restored peace and brought Turkish families from Ikonya to establish settlements, especially in east Thessaly. He also built the first mosque in the area outside Dereli where I am from.

Konyar has no difference than regular Yörüks because they are Atçeken's themselves. Yörüks settled after 1354 was manpower of Ottomans during Balkan expansion, they were not only peacekeepers. Using these nomads a permanent military power caused to disappearing almost half of the population in some Yörük associations formed in Balkans, which prevented Turkifying the region in the long-term. Towards 1500 and after, early Yörük population mostly settled, and Turkic source of gene pool replaced with fresh comer Türkmens.

See the difference between Balkan Turks who only have early Yörük origin vs the ones who introduced with late comer Türkmen population:

Gedrosia.



First three individual is from plains where land is fertile and suitable for agriculture. They were conquerors and took the best land, the ones who settled afterward had to settle on the mountain skirt. Separation is easy as such.

J2a haplogroup in general must also be a major player for Turkish settlements in the Balkans, as in east Thessaly, Bitola and Karadağ. Haplogrupa-j2a-m92.png

I agree that J2 should have a major role, but I find it unrealistic that the amount of J2 in Karadağ is connected to Turkic migration.

[Bender1999]

In my knowledge Yörüks are simply Türkmens who kept their original (semi-)nomadic lifestyle. Next time i or my parents go to Turkey i will buy the hole encyclopedia about the nomadic people of anatolian part of ottoman empire(that includes Kurds and arabs). Also i heard there were a back migration to Chorasan, not only the shia/alevi kizilbash but many Turkmens went back to this place(i heard). The question is, why Balkan/Anatolian Turks have in relation to other Oghuz groups more N? A connection to Finno Ugric/Siberian homeland or another indication for the diversity of Oghuz tribes although all are „descendants“ of the legendary Oghuz Khan.

[Shubotai]

Yes, they were farmers.

The differences that the newcomer seems to have are a higher siberian admixture, the presence of south asian admixture and the absence of south east asian admixture and a decent but lower north european, atlantic/med and caucasian admixture.

Somehow I guess that points again that the first three individuals score a higher admixture from areas where haplogroup N is present (north Europe, south-east Asia) and the last individual from areas where Q is present (Siberia, south Asia). It would be interesting to see the results if northern Siberian admixture was isolated. But yes, Q-L275>Q-L245 is definitely native to south west Asia.

The common type of J in Karadağ is J2b2 from Albanians, but J2a is also a bit elevated, so maybe a founder effect is possible because I doubt a back-migration from Italy, since that usually went towards Albania.

In the majority of Turkic and Mongolic peoples in Asia the east asian mtdna is usually higher than east-asian y-dna. Turkic Genetic Charts In Turkey it seems lower or equal but I also definitely think it is more widespread.

TurkishY_DNA
TurksMT_DNA

[Kyp]

See the difference between Balkan Turks who only have early Yörük origin vs the ones who introduced with late comer Türkmen population:

Gedrosia.

Do you mean later Turkmens had higher Gedrosian than early ones?
It just looks like to me that sample 4 is less mixed (because of later settlement) therefore higher Mongoloid and Gedrosian/South Asian components.

[Kaspias]

In my knowledge Yörüks are simply Türkmens who kept their original (semi-)nomadic lifestyle.

This is the case:

-> In reality all Oghuz groups are Turkmens, moreover Ottoman Turks as a whole called Turkomans.
-> Yörük is the ones who kept their nomadic culture as you stated and probably have no such an old origin but appeared afterward. But, the thing which confusing is those early Beylik Türks named as Yörüks despite they haven't called Yörüks in that time period.
-> At the same time, Turkmen were used for late-comers by already settled ones. And settled ones started to call themselves Manav, Yörük, etc...
-> After Yörüks settled and mixed, they haven't called with a specific term.

Terms are confusing indeed.

Do you mean later Turkmens had higher Gedrosian than early ones?
It just looks like to me that sample 4 is less mixed (because of later settlement) therefore higher Mongoloid and Gedrosian/South Asian components.

I mean early ones were not mixed and pure Central Asian and late ones were mixed and have same origin with those Turkmens pinpointed on the map above. These early settlements happened at the same time all over the Eastern Balkans, if one sample gets roughly 2% EE and the other is 12%, there should be a 3rd (or more) influencer.

If the region mixed is Iran which I highly believe, especially Horasan, it is expected late-comers have boosted Gedrosia. See this:



Why not Anatolia?

As I stated, earliest ones were not mixed as they are still nomads and military manpower of the empire. There is a great chance that there were migrations from Anatolia to Balkans after the 1500s to the end of the empire, following Celali Rebellions. But the thing is despite we see these rebels in Western Anatolia too, they were not settled native Western Turks, but late-comer Alevi Turkmens. On the other hand, smaller and individual migrations should be simply absorbed. At least that's what I have found until now, things can change in the future.

[Kaspias]

The differences that the newcomer seems to have are a higher siberian admixture, the presence of south asian admixture and the absence of south east asian admixture and a decent but lower north european, atlantic/med and caucasian admixture.

All correct except higher Siberian admixture. Imagine an individual similar to İskeçe and Selanik mixing with a Turkmen who has around 20% EE. Child would have around 10% EE and similar to Gümülcine who has fewer Europid input. The early ones were from 30 to 40% EE but the region settled were covered with non-Turk population, and they extremely mixed with them through generations. Turkifying of the region dates to 1600-1700, what do early Turks had done 300 years?

Somehow I guess that points again that the first three individuals score a higher admixture from areas where haplogroup N is present (north Europe, south-east Asia) and the last individual from areas where Q is present (Siberia, south Asia). It would be interesting to see the results if northern Siberian admixture was isolated. But yes, Q-L275>Q-L245 is definitely native to south west Asia.

This is what I think exactly. Early settlers brought N. Situation of Q is complicated as Tatars may have a role here.

K23b of last individual who is Q-L330.

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	27.58
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	15.89
3	European_Early_Farmers	15.61
4	South_Central_Asian	10.32
5	Near_East	8.46
6	East_Siberian	5.26
7	Ancestral_Altaic	4.53
8	Tungus-Altaic	4.41
9	South_Indian	2.16
10	North_African	1.87
11	East_African	1.1
12	Amerindian	1.08
13	Paleo_Siberian	1.02
14	Australoid	0.43
15	Archaic_Human	0.19
16	South_East_Asian	0.05
17	Subsaharian	0.04

More East_Siberian than Tungus-Altaic, and somewhat rich ANE.

In the majority of Turkic and Mongolic peoples in Asia the east asian mtdna is usually higher than east-asian y-dna. Turkic Genetic Charts In Turkey it seems lower or equal but I also definitely think it is more widespread.

The same applies to Balkan Turks. You can compare: Balkan Turks mtDNA

[Bender1999]

This is what I think exactly. Early settlers brought N. Situation of Q is complicated as Tatars may have a role here.
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Since when Tatars lived in Balkan? In my knowledge they were natives in coastal region of nowadays Romania and Dobruja region in Bulgaria, after Russian expansion many flew southward. Did Tatars have enough time to have any genetic input in balkan turks?
Another interesting case, Crimean and Lipka Tatars belong more to Q, Kazan to N. Kazan tatars(or were it cuvash idk) have also appreciable E, and both high amount if J2( i bet there are just assimilated Armenians lol).

Also i think Kipchak turkics are also interesting to explore,

[Chris596]

K23b of last individual who is Q-L330.

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	Caucasian	27.58
2	European_Hunters_Gatherers	15.89
3	European_Early_Farmers	15.61
4	South_Central_Asian	10.32
5	Near_East	8.46
6	East_Siberian	5.26
7	Ancestral_Altaic	4.53
8	Tungus-Altaic	4.41
9	South_Indian	2.16
10	North_African	1.87
11	East_African	1.1
12	Amerindian	1.08
13	Paleo_Siberian	1.02
14	Australoid	0.43
15	Archaic_Human	0.19
16	South_East_Asian	0.05
17	Subsaharian	0.04

More East_Siberian than Tungus-Altaic, and somewhat rich ANE.

This is an interesting sample. My Caucasian and EEF score is higher and my EHG score is obviously 2 times higher. But I get roughly the half from everything else (E-Siberian, Ancestral Altaic), and about a third from Near-East, a quarter from Tungus Altaic and South-Central Asian. And my Southeast Asian percentage is actually higher but I tend to get it on almost every calculator. But I don't know on what level it is comparable to my ancestry (not so much I believe). Of course this is on k23b

Where can I find more samples like this one (about settlers, Turkic people, Huns, etc whatever is comparable to my ancestry)?

[Kaspias]

Since when Tatars lived in Balkan? In my knowledge they were natives in coastal region of nowadays Romania and Dobruja region in Bulgaria, after Russian expansion many flew southward. Did Tatars have enough time to have any genetic input in balkan turks?
Another interesting case, Crimean and Lipka Tatars belong more to Q, Kazan to N. Kazan tatars(or were it cuvash idk) have also appreciable E, and both high amount if J2( i bet there are just assimilated Armenians lol).

Also i think Kipchak turkics are also interesting to explore,

Tatar migration to Balkans dates the same as first settler Yörüks, even before than them if we count pre-Ottoman Turkic populations. The spreading during the 1500s was roughly 70% Yörük and 30% Tatar. After 1500s Tatars registered as Yörüks and identified as regular Turks which resulted in the melting of both communities in the same pot throughout time. An average Balkan Turk already had both Tatar and Oghuz blood before Dobruja migrations but recent(before and after Russo-Turkish War) migration of Crimean Tatars boosted it.

I'm going to check y-DNA sharing of Crimean Tatars tomorrow, can't recall now.