Macedonian and Bulgarians

[Vojnik]

We're Slavo Macedonians. 50% Native, 40% Slavic, 10% other varying invading tribes such as Avars, Bulgars, Germanics, Hellenics etc.

[Vojnik]

Whilst Montenegro is clearly Serbian with the exact same language down tho the 'hvala puno', Macedonia in the meanwhile has clearly a differentiated vocabulary to the standard Bulgarian. Any South Slavic speaker can tell the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian. But how many can tell the difference between Serbian and Montenegrin?

Macedonians and Bulgarians are in fact close though. Brothers, but far from identical twins.

[Mingle]

Whilst Montenegro is clearly Serbian with the exact same language down tho the 'hvala puno', Macedonia in the meanwhile has clearly a differentiated vocabulary to the standard Bulgarian. Any South Slavic speaker can tell the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian.

Macedonians and Bulgarians are in fact close though. Brothers, but far from identical twins.

The "Montenegrin language" is really just a localized version of the standard Shtokavian language that's based on the East Herzegovina dialect. So both Standard Serbian and Standard Montenegrin are based on the same dialect (a place outside both Montenegro & Serbia) while the Macedonian and Bulgarian standardized registers are based on different dialects (Prilep-Bitola & Veliko Tarnovo). The difference between the Shtokavian dialects native to Montenegro and Serbia are likely similar to the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian.

Essentially, Standard Montenegrin and Standard Serbian are accents of the same dialect (like American English & British English) while Bulgarian and Macedonian are roughly more like dialects of the same language (like Swedish and Danish). But besides the standardized registers of Shtokavian/Serbo-Croatian, there are Shtokavian dialects spoken across Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Croatia that likely differ from each other as much as Bulgarian and Macedonian differ from one another.

At least this would've been the case traditionally and should still be to some varying degrees. I don't know too much about how the local dialects were affected after the standardized registers of their language was promoted everywhere.

But how many can tell the difference between Serbian and Montenegrin?

If you're referring to their standardized registers, then I don't think it would take long to tell the two apart since Serbian is ekavian while Montenegrin is ijekavian. They also have two additional letters in the Montenegrin Cyrillic alphabet to represent the and sounds. I'm not sure if those sounds exist in Serbian or not, but they don't have letters for them, so I dunno. But yeah, obviously it's much smaller than that between Macedonian and Bulgarian.

[Dušan]

If you're referring to their standardized registers, then I don't think it would take long to tell the two apart since Serbian is ekavian while Montenegrin is ijekavian.

Actually, Serbian standardized language is both ekavian and ijekavian.
Standardized Serbian in Republika Srpska (in B&H) is ijekavian Serbian, as you can hear on Srpska's Radio-Television.

Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, western Serbia and Montenegro are ijekavian speakers (yellow and orange on map).





Difference between ekavian and ijekavian Serbian are really minor. All my ancestors were ijekavian, my parents easily switched to ekavian dialect in their 30ties after they settled in Serbia because of war in Croatia, and I speak ekavian.

[Mingle]

Actually, Serbian standardized language is both ekavian and ijekavian.
Standardized Serbian in Republika Srpska (in B&H) is ijekavian Serbian, as you can hear on Srpska's Radio-Television.

Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, western Serbia and Montenegro are ijekavian speakers (yellow and orange on map).





Difference between ekavian and ijekavian Serbian are really minor. All my ancestors were ijekavian, my parents easily switched to ekavian dialect in their 30ties after they settled in Serbia because of war in Croatia, and I speak ekavian.

I knew about many Serbs speaking in ijekavian, but wasn't sure if the ijekavian form could be accepted as "Standard Serbian".

The form that the Serbian government promotes/uses is ekavian. It probably would have been better if the Serbian government used ijekavian as the national standard instead of ekavian since the original dialect that Standard Serbian is based off of (East Herzegovinan) is ijekavian and it feels a bit artificial if they use ekavian IMO.

The difference is only a yat reflex, so its a pretty small difference. But I think it would help tell apart someone from Montenegro and someone from Serbia since he asked if its possible to tell apart Montenegrin and Serbian. There are likely other more important things but I don't know them.

[kundur]

We're Slavo Macedonians. 50% Native, 40% Slavic, 10% other varying invading tribes such as Avars, Bulgars, Germanics, Hellenics etc.

Of course you are not like those Western Anatolian Turks who obviously clearly have high levels of blood from the ancient Turks of Asia. They are an exceptional case.

However, the genetic aspect is still a secondary aspect when it comes to distributing population clusters into different states. Folks are classified primarily based on the identity of the state which they are subjects of. Southern French have probably ZERO blood from medieval Franks but they are French, because they have evolved under the umbrella of the Frankish state.

It's the same for you in the Balkans. Bulgarian state, ever since khan/knyaz Boris, has an Orthodox state identity with a Church Slavonic lingua franca which it imposed upon its own folk and the folk has evolved over the last 1300 years based on that identity.

[Jana]

We're Slavo Macedonians. 50% Native, 40% Slavic, 10% other varying invading tribes such as Avars, Bulgars, Germanics, Hellenics etc.

There is also minor Byzantine/Anatolian admix in south Balkans.

Whilst Montenegro is clearly Serbian with the exact same language down tho the 'hvala puno', Macedonia in the meanwhile has clearly a differentiated vocabulary to the standard Bulgarian. Any South Slavic speaker can tell the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian. But how many can tell the difference between Serbian and Montenegrin?

Macedonians and Bulgarians are in fact close though. Brothers, but far from identical twins.

Except that Montenegro has separate medieval statehood from Serbia/Raška, based on Catholic Duklja and Zeta principalities.
Meanwhile modern northern Macedonia doesn't have medieval history separated from Bulgarian Empire except when later it was part of Serbian Empire.

Now I am not saying Macedonians aren't their own thing as they clearly evolved to that but so are Montenegrins and from historical perspective they have more of their own uniqueness.

People who claim anyone as anything are idiots. Macedonians aren't Bulgarians, Montenegrins aren't Serbs (not speaking about 30% Serbs who live there), Moldovans in RM aren't Romanians.
Bosniaks aren't Croats and Serbs.

Nations aren't blood groups. There is extremely small difference genetically and linguistically between Scandinavians and nobody in their right mind would deny them their states, languages and identity.
Only in primitive Balkans where people (not you necessarily) think they have right to command to others what their nation is.

[catgeorge]

Looks like a Bulgar, speaks like a Bulgar smells like a Bulgar then its a Bulgar.

Skopjians are SerboBulgar Yugozombies.

[catgeorge]

These are Macedonians you are Slavoavar doppleganger wannabes.

Holy fight will never end with Balkan Trash. Rest of Balkans are lovely but Skopjians can suck my balls.

[Jana]

However, the genetic aspect is still a secondary aspect when it comes to distributing population clusters into different states. Folks are classified primarily based on the identity of the state which they are subjects of. Southern French have probably ZERO blood from medieval Franks but they are French, because they have evolved under the umbrella of the Frankish state.

Very wrong. Southern French in deep Provence can be very close to Swiss and west Germans. They have lot of Frankish blood. Same applies to SE French in Rhone-Alps.
Only Basque like SW French don't. It seems you erraneouly think North Italian like coastal southern French are the norm. No. Coast of south France has lot of recent Italian ancestry especially in port cities.
And even north Italians have Germanic admixture.