Do you consider North Africans white?

[Nassbean]

1. Because if we agree to take guanches as standard for ancient north african dna we have to assume that ancient NA were physically similar to them. I didn't wrote that most guanches were light, I wrote they were described as having "frequently" light features. Try not to extrapolate and read well my words.

Well before drawing such conclusions you should also question your sources. This is what the study also says :

The results reveal that this individual likely was lactose intolerant and had brown eyes, dark hair, and light or medium skin color. These results are similar for the other individuals where SNP information is available, albeit with lower coverage, suggesting that—at least for this sample of Guanches—the dominating phenotype was lactose intolerant, dark hair, light or medium skin color, and brown eyes (Table S4).

https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(17)31257-5

that's how they were depicted :






Also some of them being "light" was totally possible because even today you find north africans with such features :

2. Many (not most) north africans are brown skinned and visibly negroid influenced (some are even mullatto/black) those are clearly divergent genetically from the average/lighter caucasoid north africans and it is absolutely logic there was some absorption of negroid blood even among many of the currently "average" north africans.
How much SSA or NE African do you score for example ?

No offense but you really seem to base your opinion on stereotypes and I'm not suprised because Portugal has a very small north african community. Brown skinned/negroid looking north africans are rare and certainly do not form the average. Most of us look more like middle easterners than some kind of negroid admixed population.

Here some pics of my people (coastal north africans) :














Some north africans are indeed descendent of black slaves (they are mostly found in saharan oasis and in big cities) but they are a minority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haratin)

I score 5-6% SSA and negligible amount of NE african

3. Since the population is heterogenous (comparing to "native" european populations at least) it is a mistake to generalize and talk about a unique north african genetic.
The samples I saw (and it was a few) about north africans indicated an average of 20% SSA. I just don't know how those tested individuals looked like.

It's the same as saying that brazilians score on average for ex. 30%ssa and we extrapolate to saying that Brazilians are 30% Ssa, when it is such a heterogeneous population with individuals up to 90%ssa and others 0% that those generalizations are absurd.

Indeed but I was talking about the average phenotype (and to some extant our genetic profile too) and most coastal north africans have the same kind of genetic profile with low variations (this profile is very similar if not identical to ancient north africans). And your "20% ssa" you probably get it from gedmatch but gedmatch has a poor database and is outdated for north africans (I mean seriously analyzing NAs without any TAF sample is ridiculous)

[Sebastianus Rex]

They are caucasian/white with 1/4-1/5 SSA. Not everything fits in a definite case. What i found interesting is they often look "whiter" than gulf arabs and around, despite being much more SSA influenced. Anf if you compare with Berbers even more so but this might be explained by having a stronger whg/euro component along the SSA.

Or those samples are simply worthless in populations that are heterogeneous. It is impossible that someone like Zidane scores anywhere near 20% SSA like the Algerian average of the samples.

If that's the methodology then why not starting making french samples including french citizens of Maghrebi and sub-saharan ancestry ?

[Nassbean]

Erm that Iberian component from the Neolithic is from EEF, those Iberian farmers are EEF

That's ridiculous these "iberian" farmers were themselves invaders in iberia and directly came from anatolia ...also what should we say about capsians (proto-berbers) ? AFAIK they came from the levant.

[Petalpusher]

Or those samples are simply worthless in populations that are heterogeneous. It is impossible that someone like Zidane scores anywhere near 20% SSA like the Algerian average of the samples.

Zidane is Berber, he would score less than 10% SSA. Berbers range is more like 5 to 10%, maybe even less on the coast. Yes they are diverse because they are a pred caucasian population living for ages in Africa, the gradient is huge but still unless you go to coast or really south, the average is a good representation at +/- 20% SSA.

[Nassbean]

Zidane is Berber, he would score less than 10% SSA. Berbers range is more like 5 to 10%, maybe even less on the coast. Yes they are diverse because they are a pred caucasian population living for ages in Africa, the gradient is huge but still unless you go to coast or really south, the average is a good representation at +/- 20% SSA.

average is around 5-10% not 20% :

[Petalpusher]

average is around 5-10% not 20% :

No it's 20%, you don't read this data correctly. It's even 25% in Morocco.

There are other components embedding SSA here than just Yoruba. Please don't waste my time with a 10y old discussion again.
Having such variation in people living together wouldn't make sense, it would mean they don't reproduce..
In same way they have more WHG but it's embedded elsewhere.

[Luso]

I guess you could say... some are, but most aren’t and that’s okay.

[FinalFlash]

No it's 20%, you don't read this data correctly. It's even 25% in Morocco.

There are other components embedding SSA here than just Yoruba. Please don't waste my time with a 10y old discussion again.
Having such variation in people living together wouldn't make sense, it would mean they don't reproduce..
In same way they have more WHG but it's embedded elsewhere.

Show it to us please.

[Mingle]

geographically speaking Malta and in particular Cyprus, aren't properly Europe, in any case as European I consider Cypriots whiter than Northern Africans, at least they have similarities with Greeks and Southern Italians, so they are mostly meds.
While I don't know much about people from Malta, but according history infos they should be not much different than Sicilians with some british admixture.

The Maltese are identical to Sicilians genetically and aren't part British. They're descended from Sicilian migrants. The only difference between them is language.

[Mingle]

most of these people are not brown skinned

They're not white-skinned either. They're beige-skinned. And beige is closer to brown than to white.