Do you consider North Africans white?

[Nassbean]

If anything north Africa (especially the northern part along the mediterranean) only got darker and more negroid influenced through history, surely not the other way around like some wrongly suppose when they see a light north african and associate it with european ancestry.

Those light skinned caucasoids should have been far more common (perhaps even predominant) before the Arab expansion/slave trade and ongoing migrations from the south.

That's absolutely not true and a common myth on anthroforum.

Here we'll compare my results to many ancient north african samples :

me compared to samples from pre-hispanic canaria (guanches never met any arab nor black slave) and two NA bronze age samples :



as you can see many of them scored a bit more SSA than me.


In 4000 years we didn't change that much

[Sebastianus Rex]

That's absolutely not true and a common myth on anthroforum.

Here we'll compare my results to many ancient north african samples :

here me compared to samples from pre-hispanic canaria (guanches never met any arab nor black slave) and two NA bronze age samples :



as you can see many of them scored a bit more SSA than me.


In 4000 years we didn't change that much

Guanches were not brown, they were even described has having frequently light features.

Perhaps not you and many north africans who have conserved their ancient genetics relatively intact but you can't generalize about populations that nowadays are heterogeous and score on average 20% SSA.

How much ssa ancient north africans or guanches scored?

[Nassbean]

Nassbean is around half european by aDNA.

EEF came from Anatolia and when it comes to north africans it didn't came from europeans but directly from this anatolian source so it's shared admixture. I'm totally indigenous to north africa and have almost nothing to do with europeans (let alone my phenotype lol)

[Nassbean]

Guanches were not brown, they were even described has having frequently light features.

Perhaps not you and many north africans who have conserved their ancient genetics relatively intact but you can't generalize about a population that nowadays is heterogeous and scores on average 20% SSA.

Why are you highlighting the fact that they were not brown ? As I've said multiple times here most north africans aren't brown skinned at all and so guanches were similar to people like me. Also most guanches weren't "light" but at the same level of modern north africans (we have tons of mummies to back this up)

And north africans with 20% SSA are rare and mainly from southern parts of the Maghreb. The vast majority of coastal north africans today are similar to ancient north africans there is no doubt about it

[Synapsid]

EEF came from Anatolia and when it comes to north africans it didn't came from europeans but directly from this anatolian source so it's shared admixture. I'm totally indigenous to north africa and have almost nothing to do with europeans (let alone my phenotype lol)

This not true. In the Levant, Anatolian_N came straight from Anatolian source but not in North Africa, NA got it from EEF in Europe (excluding the Dzudzuana in taforalt)

[Nassbean]

This not true. In the Levant, Anatolian_N came straight from Anatolian source but not in North Africa, NA got it from EEF in Europe (excluding the Dzudzuana in taforalt)

that's not true where did you get that from ? There was a european contribution during the late neolithic but that's for our iberian component it's not the source of our EEF

[Sebastianus Rex]

Why are you highlighting the fact that they were not brown ? As I've said multiple times here most north africans aren't brown skinned at all and so guanches were similar to people like me. Also most guanches weren't "light" but at the same level of modern north africans (we have tons of mummies to back this up)

And north africans with 20% SSA are rare and mainly from southern parts of the Maghreb. The vast majority of coastal north africans today are similar to ancient north africans there is no doubt about it

1. Because if we agree to take guanches as standard for ancient north african dna we have to assume that ancient NA were physically similar to them. I didn't wrote that most guanches were light, I wrote they were described as having "frequently" light features. Try not to extrapolate and read well my words.

2. Many (not most) north africans are brown skinned and visibly negroid influenced (some are even mullatto/black) those are clearly divergent genetically from the average/lighter caucasoid north africans and it is absolutely logic there was some absorption of negroid blood even among many of the currently "average" north africans.
How much SSA or NE African do you score for example ?

3. Since the population is heterogenous (comparing to "native" european populations at least) it is a mistake to generalize and talk about a unique north african genetic.
The samples I saw (and it was a few) about north africans indicated an average of 20% SSA. I just don't know how those tested individuals looked like nor their individual results.

It's the same as saying that brazilians score on average for ex. 30%ssa and we extrapolate to saying that Brazilians are 30% Ssa, when it is such a heterogeneous population with individuals up to 90%ssa and others 0% that those generalizations are absurd.

[Synapsid]

that's not true where did you get that from ? There was a european contribution during the late neolithic but that's for our iberian component it's not the source of our EEF

Erm that Iberian component from the Neolithic is from EEF, those Iberian farmers are EEF

[Petalpusher]

They are caucasian/white with 1/4-1/5 SSA. Not everything fits in a definite case. What i found interesting is they often look "whiter" than gulf arabs and around, despite being much more SSA influenced. Anf if you compare with Berbers even more so but this might be explained by having a stronger whg/euro component along the SSA.

[FinalFlash]

I consider North Africans to be African.