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Thread: R-CTS1211 subclades and Slavic languages

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    Default R-CTS1211 subclades and Slavic languages

    R-CTS1211 and Slavic languages

    CTS1211 has four main branches, Y35, YP343, YP1034 and Y10805.
    Slavic languages are traditionally divided in three branches, East Slavic, West Slavic and South Slavic. slaveni-karta.jpg But in order to comply with genetics, let's divide it in three different groups.
    The majority of East Slavs and South Slavs belong to CTS3402, so there shouldn't be much difference between the two. CTS3402 is the main subclade of Y35.
    With the recent progress in slavic linguistics, it is becoming more evident that the South Slavic group is actually closer to East Slavic than it was previously thought and certainly much closer than it is to West Slavic. YP343 is found in West Slavic areas. And the subclade YP1034 is found in small numbers in north Russia and may be connected to North Slavic, which is a suggested extinct branch. Y10805 is found in Finland.

    Poland has a vast diversity of CTS1211 subclades and could be the place where the demographic explosion of Slavs occured and from where most Slavs expanded, along with west Ukraine and Belarus. slavs_map3.jpg
    The majority of Poland was inhabited by L365 like in Kashubians and should be East Slavic speaking at first, and would have become West Slavic after the Lech migration.
    fcf12d14596ff90fc1267bb02f806b38.jpg
    The Pomeranian subclades YP335 and L366 are found mostly outside of Poland. YP335 is found in Russians and Bulgarians and L366 is an important lineage in Slavic Bulgarians. Bulgarians from north west Bulgaria, as well as North Macedonia, which were control centers for Bulgarians and borderline Greek villages would belong to L366. L1029 would have been pushed in southeast Bulgaria and North Greece.
    zimnici08.jpgzimnici09.jpgzimnici10.jpg
    Greek CTS1211 belongs to various subclades, YP335, Y2613, L1280 and is not clear yet which would be predominant in early Slavs. It seems negative though for Y2910 and L365.
    Most of the artifacts found in mainland Greece in old slavic regions resemble the items of the Antes culture in central Ukraine. So it's a picture similar to other south Slavs.
    The common subclade of CTS1211 in Romanians is YP951.
    Belorussians have both YP951 and YP582. YP951 is also found in south Poland, Ukraine and Romania and YP582 exists in large numbers in east Ukraine and Russia as well.
    Ukraine has a vast diversity of CTS1211 subclades including YP951, YP582, S18681 and other YP235 subclades.
    Russians have mainly Y2910 which is distributed in central and north Russia. In south Russia, YP582 is more common. YP335 is found in central Russia and may be related to Bulgarians that settled there.
    janik2902y.jpg
    Slovaks have Y3226 which is the brother subclade of Y2910 under Y2902. So they have common origin with Russians and should have been also East Slavic speaking at some time, although they retain a west slavic name. But the origin of Russians must have been in Slovakia, where a pocket of Y2910 is found at the extreme end of Y3226.
    However, it is difficult to explain East Slavic with just Y2902. It is absent from Belarus and Ukraine.
    It may be more that East Slavic languages are connected with the YP951 and YP582 group, which are brother clades under YP237 and they are found in all Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and Romania, as well as south Poland and east Balkans. There are also numerous other YP237 subclades in these areas.
    YP578-2-2-and-aster.jpgYP578-2-3.jpgYP578migr.jpgYP237.jpgYP237-heatmap.jpg
    Y3226 is centered in Slovakia, south east Poland and north Hungary.
    Slovenes speak Slovenian, which belongs to the same dialect continuum with Kajkavian and have Y2613 that Croatians also have and would essentially be Croatians. But they also carry Y3226 and some West Slavic YP343.
    Serbs belong to L1280 and have spread the Shtokavian languages. L1280 has three subclades, one in Serbia, one in Germany and Austria and one in Poland.
    Large numbers of CTS1211 in West Poland and East Germany belong to S18681, which is brother clade of L1280. So it must refer to Sorbs in these areas. Sorbs call themselves Serbs.
    So the two groups have obviously common origin.
    Croatians have Y2613 which is connected with the Kajkavian language, while in Chakavian speakers R1a-L260 is more common. Croatian_dialects_in_RH_and_BiH.PNG
    R1a-L1029 exists in various Slavic and Germanic countries, especially Belarussians, Ukrainians, Swedes, Germans and Bulgarians, although probably not slavic originally, it must have been assimilated by Slavs and spread with the slavic expansion, particularly with the Antes migration in East Balkans. It is also native in Germans, but it has numerous subclades in East Europe as well.
    A lot of CTS3402 has also spread in Balkans, Italy, south France and Spain with the Goths, who amassed slavic subjects in Ukraine and subsequently migrated as Visigoths in the Balkans, south France and Spain and as Ostrogoths in north west Balkans and Italy. The Goths probably had an R1a-Z284 leadership.

    The West Slavic languages come from YP343, which is distributed in Poland, Slovakia and Hungary. YP343 also includes the common subclade YP278.2.
    Zapadoslovanske.jpg
    R1a-L260 would have adopted West Slavic from YP343 and spread it in Czechoslovakia and Poland, restricting YP343 in pockets in Silesia, Slovakia and Hungary. Silesian actually has an equal number of YP343 and L365 so it's not clear whether it is closer to West Slavs or Polish Kashubians. L260 has two branches, YP1337 and YP256. Czechs settled in Czech Republic, south west Poland and south west Slovakia where the subclade YP1337 is found, while Lechs in East Germany, Poland and the rest of Slovakia, in Lech speaking regions, where the subclade YP256 is found.
    The two countries Slovakia and Slovenia have retained a high number of CTS1211, along with their names, pointing to their Slavic origin.
    The common name for Slavs in West Slavic is Slovaks and in East Slavic Slovenes. So they are just subordinate names for Slavs.
    YP343 seems centered in Hungary though, so Hungarians might have more west slavic ancestry than Slovaks themselves. But they also have Y3226.

    L784 is a small subclade found in north west Russia and Lithuania and must refer to the extinct North Slavic language spoken in the area of Novgorod, which was suggested at 1994.
    The brother clade of L784 is YP1019 under YP1034 which is found in Russia, especially the area of Novgorod, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia and Poland and would belong to the same suggested branch of north slavic.

    The subclade Y10805 is found mostly in Finland.

    Ancestral CTS1211 is found in Lithuania, which may be the origin of Slavs. Interestingly, in neighbouring north Belarus exists the ancestral Z92 found in Baltic speaking peoples, so it might be the origin of Balts, a linguistic group closely related to Slavs, under the Balto-Slavic term. CTS1211 is brother clade of Z92 under Z280.
    Some ancestral CTS1211 is also found in south Germany, from where the west slavic YP343 might have spawned.
    Therefore, the proto-Slavic language must have arised from R1a-CTS1211.
    u3g8pprkb8jz.jpg
    Last edited by Shubotai; 06-24-2020 at 06:20 PM.

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    R1a-L664 is also found in Northern PL and Baltic coast

    Nordisch-Westisch or Westisch mit Nordische einschlag
    In other words: Atlantid type

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