Is E-V13 a white and european haplogroup?

**Loki** · 07-03-2020, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Voskos

It's white but not European.

E-V13 specifically is European. It likely originated in Europe, and its distribution is European. Of course its parent is North African, but that is much older.

**Caballero** · 08-05-2020, 04:52 PM

Originally, it was neither white nor black. It's strictly tied to Ancient North African component which on autosomal tree was supposedly more basal than Basal Eurasian (Dzudzuana paper). But, it was still somewhat closer to Core Eurasian than SSA components.

This skeleton is from Cairo museum, a Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer from Egypt. Very likely his Y-DNA was E-M35/E-M78 and his autosomal was mostly ANA. Notice his unusually strong mandible, common among populations carrying ANA autosomal.

But, E-V13 was a mutation which happened in Europe, and funny enough the oldest mutation of E-V13 to date is from Iberia. The Cardial one from Croatia and the Linear from Hungary didn't still have the E-V13 mutation. So it must have happened somewhere more in the west. I hypothetize North Italy/Alpine region. Who knows.

**~~Rocinante~~** · 08-05-2020, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Caballero

Originally, it was neither white nor black. It's strictly tied to Ancient North African component which on autosomal tree was supposedly more basal than Basal Eurasian (Dzudzuana paper). But, it was still somewhat closer to Core Eurasian than SSA components.

This skeleton is from Cairo museum, a Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer from Egypt. Very likely his Y-DNA was E-M35/E-M78 and his autosomal was mostly ANA. Notice his unusually strong mandible, common among populations carrying ANA autosomal.

But, E-V13 was a mutation which happened in Europe, and funny enough the oldest mutation of E-V13 to date is from Iberia. The Cardial one from Croatia and the Linear from Hungary didn't still have the E-V13 mutation. So it must have happened somewhere more in the west. I hypothetize North Italy/Alpine region. Who knows.

It originated in Iberia i think, can't be coincidence that one iberomaurussian (TAF009) carried the E1b1b1a1b1 and the oldest E-V13 is in here.

**Annihilus** · 08-05-2020, 06:46 PM

**Caballero** · 08-05-2020, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Rocinante

It originated in Iberia i think, can't be coincidence that one iberomaurussian (TAF009) carried the E1b1b1a1b1 and the oldest E-V13 is in here.

How come then the Croatian Cardial Pottery sample was E-L618? Also, the Sopot Culture which is right north from Croatia was E-L618. Cardium Pottery initially landed in North Greece then South Albania then went up north to Dalmatia Croatia, then spread to Italy and finally to Iberia where it was found in exactly the same culture. We can speculate E-L618 took that route. Though, i would say that G2a was still the dominant Y-DNA, this particular culture was heavily influenced by a culture related to Natufians and Iberomarusians. Add that we find E-L618 and actual E-V13 in Iberia.

I am just speculating though, it can be as u say. E-L618 was spread along the shores of South Europe during Late Mesolithic, and the eventual mutation happened in Iberia.

**Caballero** · 08-05-2020, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Annihilus

Thanks to those E-M35 from Levant the Neolithic Revolution happened and along with that more permanent settlements, and setting the ground for further human civilizations.

**Caballero** · 08-05-2020, 07:37 PM

btw, according to Genetiker, none of the Iberomaurusian sample was L618 level positive, it was wrongly assessed.

Yes, the L618-level SNPs CTS1975 and CTS7273 are both transition SNPs, and their positive calls for TAF009 are both based on single reads, with both of the SNPs at the very end of their reads. So those positives are very likely to be false positives resulting from DNA damage.

The Z1919-level SNP CTS202 on the other hand is a transversion SNP, and TAF009’s negative call for that SNP is therefore reliable.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018...usian-culture/