Accepting Jesus in your heart

[Wanderer]

What do you mean by this, if I may ask?

I assumed you knew what that was. They had everybody try to speak in tongues.

What they call Holy Spirit baptism is not Holy Spirit baptism. Whether the Holy Spirit today gives additional spiritual gifts for ministry and such things is beside the point; if He does, it’s not Holy Spirit “baptism,” which is the “one baptism” of Paul (Eph 4:5). Holy Spirit baptism puts us into the Body of Christ. It’s not a second blessing at all, as all Christians have been made to drink into one Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

If you read in the Gospel of John toward the end, when the resurrected Jesus appeared to his disciples, before he went to heaven, he blowed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit". So, they received the Holy Spirit then.

As for John 20:22, ultimately I do not believe that the disciples received the permanent indwelling of the Spirit at that time. If they did, why were they still ignorant about the nature of the kingdom of God in Acts 1:6? Not that we, ourselves, are immune from such ignorance, because there is a lot of false teaching about the kingdom of God these days, but I still take that text to imply that they neither saw nor entered the kingdom of God yet. Ergo, they weren’t born again yet. The manner in which they received the Spirit then was not in baptism, or immersion, into Jesus Christ, nor was it called a baptism. What happened at Pentecost is called baptism with the Holy Ghost.

So as to John 20:22, they either received the Spirit in another capacity, more limited as in the Old Testament—or, as some suggest, the breathing on them was solely to signify the manner in which the Spirit is given. The words of Jesus are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). Either way, they had not received the indwelling of the Spirit. Jesus indicated He would send the Comforter only after His departure (John 16:7). They did not receive the Comforter then, but still had to wait for the "promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4, John 14:26). And from Pentecost onward, the gift of the Spirit is the permanent presence of Jesus Christ in us, that we may be assured that we are His now and forever, that He cannot and will not divorce us for any reason, as our salvation stands on His righteousness, not ours. So you see how those who deny this doctrine of eternal security do, in fact, deny the Spirit’s work of sealing a believer (Eph 1:13, 4:30), of putting the earnest in the heart (2 Cor 1:21-22).

Even so, Jesus told them to remain in Jerusalem until they have received the "Promise of the Father". And by that, he meant the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (John baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit). So, in Acts chapter two when the disciples were gathered together and waiting on the promise as Jesus instructed them, there suddenly came the sound of a mighty rushing wind, and tongues of fire came and divided and came upon them, and they were all "filled" with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues. They had received the Promise of the Father, to equip them with power to be witnesses of Jesus and spread the Gospel.

The promise of the Father is the gift of assurance (1 Thess 1:4-5). The fire I take to signify God’s approval of a sacrifice (Leviticus 9:24), or His personal presence (Exo 3:2-4, 13:21-22). Moreover, God used fire to certify His covenant with Abraham. The rushing wind signifies His presence (Gen 1:2). The Holy Spirit is the sign of the covenant. The Spirit is given to witness our adoption to us (Rom 8:15-16). That’s the gift of the Father which is for all His children (Luke 11:11-13, 1 Cor 12:13). It’s the assurance of salvation that truly gives us power to live for God self-sacrificially (Titus 2:11-12, Gal 5:16-17). Not everyone speaks in tongues, and the tongues are just one of several possible manifestations of the gift, not the gift itself! Paul said tongues will cease. However, the gift itself remains. God doesn't take His gift away! (Rom 11:29.) But He does do away with "that which is in part" (1 Cor 13:10).

These experiences were not unique to the apostles, but are meant for every believer and disciple of Jesus, until this day.

There are some sign gifts that absolutely were unique to the apostles. The apostles received “the signs of an apostle” (2 Cor 12:12). Clearly, not all are apostles, not all are workers of miracles, and not all speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:28-30). The power to be Jesus’s witnesses and to confirm the gospel with miracles was given to the apostles, not all believers.

And Wanderer, you make accusations against Pentecostals that you obviously heard from someone else, you're just repeating the gossip. But here's the thing: those accusations are false, not true. I know, I've been in Pentecostal circles for many years and it simply isn't true what you accuse them of (well, there might be some that fit the charge but certainly not a majority!). So, if I were you I would be more careful about what I say about other people, and accuse them of. Remember we will all stand before Jesus one day. Falsely accusing his people is not cool...that is something the devil excels in.

I am not falsely accusing them. I even made a point that not all believed as I charged, so it was a general statement. Furthermore, the position on eternal security I described is characteristic of the Assemblies of God, and this position is propounded on their website (The AOG-USA website). The AOG is the world's largest Pentecostal denomination.

[Abdelnour]

Congrats man. It is always good to have Jesus in your heart!

[Loki]

I assumed you knew what that was. They had everybody try to speak in tongues.

What they call Holy Spirit baptism is not Holy Spirit baptism. Whether the Holy Spirit today gives additional spiritual gifts for ministry and such things is beside the point; if He does, it’s not Holy Spirit “baptism,” which is the “one baptism” of Paul (Eph 4:5). Holy Spirit baptism puts us into the Body of Christ. It’s not a second blessing at all, as all Christians have been made to drink into one Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).



As for John 20:22, ultimately I do not believe that the disciples received the permanent indwelling of the Spirit at that time. If they did, why were they still ignorant about the nature of the kingdom of God in Acts 1:6? Not that we, ourselves, are immune from such ignorance, because there is a lot of false teaching about the kingdom of God these days, but I still take that text to imply that they neither saw nor entered the kingdom of God yet. Ergo, they weren’t born again yet. The manner in which they received the Spirit then was not in baptism, or immersion, into Jesus Christ, nor was it called a baptism. What happened at Pentecost is called baptism with the Holy Ghost.

So as to John 20:22, they either received the Spirit in another capacity, more limited as in the Old Testament—or, as some suggest, the breathing on them was solely to signify the manner in which the Spirit is given. The words of Jesus are spirit and they are life (John 6:63). Either way, they had not received the indwelling of the Spirit. Jesus indicated He would send the Comforter only after His departure (John 16:7). They did not receive the Comforter then, but still had to wait for the "promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4, John 14:26). And from Pentecost onward, the gift of the Spirit is the permanent presence of Jesus Christ in us, that we may be assured that we are His now and forever, that He cannot and will not divorce us for any reason, as our salvation stands on His righteousness, not ours. So you see how those who deny this doctrine of eternal security do, in fact, deny the Spirit’s work of sealing a believer (Eph 1:13, 4:30), of putting the earnest in the heart (2 Cor 1:21-22).



The promise of the Father is the gift of assurance (1 Thess 1:4-5). The fire I take to signify God’s approval of a sacrifice (Leviticus 9:24), or His personal presence (Exo 3:2-4, 13:21-22). Moreover, God used fire to certify His covenant with Abraham. The rushing wind signifies His presence (Gen 1:2). The Holy Spirit is the sign of the covenant. The Spirit is given to witness our adoption to us (Rom 8:15-16). That’s the gift of the Father which is for all His children (Luke 11:11-13, 1 Cor 12:13). It’s the assurance of salvation that truly gives us power to live for God self-sacrificially (Titus 2:11-12, Gal 5:16-17). Not everyone speaks in tongues, and the tongues are just one of several possible manifestations of the gift, not the gift itself! Paul said tongues will cease. However, the gift itself remains. God doesn't take His gift away! (Rom 11:29.) But He does do away with "that which is in part" (1 Cor 13:10).



There are some sign gifts that absolutely were unique to the apostles. The apostles received “the signs of an apostle” (2 Cor 12:12). Clearly, not all are apostles, not all are workers of miracles, and not all speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:28-30). The power to be Jesus’s witnesses and to confirm the gospel with miracles was given to the apostles, not all believers.



I am not falsely accusing them. I even made a point that not all believed as I charged, so it was a general statement. Furthermore, the position on eternal security I described is characteristic of the Assemblies of God, and this position is propounded on their website (The AOG-USA website). The AOG is the world's largest Pentecostal denomination.

I do not agree with you, but it is counterproductive to argue with you about this, as I don't believe you will listen to me with an open heart and with a teachable spirit. Instead I might put up some facts about the scriptural Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which almost always goes hand in hand with speaking in tongues -- certainly in the Biblical record it does too. And we are still in the same dispensation of the Holy Spirit. Jesus still baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit today. It is definitely something that every Christian can and should seek and receive from God. Not only does it enrich one's spiritual life and relationship with God, but it also empowers and equips one for ministry.

My friend, I trust that Jesus will reveal these things to you by his Holy Spirit. Jesus certainly wants you to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. When the time is right, I trust he will pour out his Spirit on you in this way. I can confirm that it is real, and that the same Holy Spirit that filled the Apostles on the day of Pentecost is still with us today, and still fills Christians to overflowing! Unfortunately, the devil does not like it when Christians are empowered, and hence he uses every opportunity to spread negative information about this. And yes, unfortunately some Christian denominations are guilty of working against God's Spirit, and and grieving the Holy Spirit -- something the Bible tells us not to do. We should not quench the Spirit or blaspheme the Spirit in various ways. Ask God for discernment!