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Thread: Accepting Jesus in your heart

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    Wanderer, you are wrong about this. But I'm not going to try and convince you...I trust the Lord Jesus Christ will bring you to this truth through his Holy Spirit in the right time The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from the New Birth. I pray to God that he will reveal this to you and that you will also receive this full immersion of the Holy Spirit power, as the apostles received in Acts chapter 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Wanderer, you are wrong about this. But I'm not going to try and convince you...I trust the Lord Jesus Christ will bring you to this truth through his Holy Spirit in the right time The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from the New Birth. I pray to God that he will reveal this to you and that you will also receive this full immersion of the Holy Spirit power, as the apostles received in Acts chapter 2
    I agree, as I said before I believe it should be practiced as John the Baptist practiced it as a form of ritual cleansing. I think if Christian sects followed this we would see people with a high spiritual morale.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

    Even if this were hard--that is how it is ! Assuredly, however, by far the harder fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her. Distress, misfortune, and diseases are her answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    I agree, as I said before I believe it should be practiced as John the Baptist practiced it as a form of ritual cleansing. I think if Christian sects followed this we would see people with a high spiritual morale.
    Yes but let me clarify -- this "baptism" I am speaking of is not the water baptism (which is also important), but a spiritual baptism.. when you receive power of the Holy Spirit. If you read in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus told his disciples that they would be baptized in the Holy Spirit not long after. Then, he commanded them to wait in Jerusalem until they have received this promised "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Then if you read the first chapters of Acts (which was also written by the author of Luke, and is a follow up to the gospel of Luke), you will see how that happened. You will also read that this promise of the Spirit belongs to all believers who will come to Christ. And it also has a specific purpose (apart from obviously bringing us into closer fellowship with Jesus) -- and that is to equip us with power to be Jesus's witnesses. Power to witness to others and spread the Gospel.
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    That is why most Christians are dead in spirit these days. They only focus on Jesus and the moral things, but Jesus stood out because of his spiritual teachings and acts. Obviously no one can be resurrected without spiritual access. This powerful spirit is Holy in that it differentiates itself from all other spirits. Without this Holy Spirit you are dead in spirit and cannot decipher what comes from God and what doesn't. I can attest to this strongly. It is the Spirit of Truth and it is not asleep and archaic. It is alive just as Jesus is a Living God. Unfortunately most Christians do not see this because they are distracted with the flesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Wanderer, you are wrong about this. But I'm not going to try and convince you...I trust the Lord Jesus Christ will bring you to this truth through his Holy Spirit in the right time The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from the New Birth. I pray to God that he will reveal this to you and that you will also receive this full immersion of the Holy Spirit power, as the apostles received in Acts chapter 2
    The disciples were born again when they received the Spirit at Pentecost. That was when they received the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit. See John 14:16-17. As Jesus said, He (the Comforter) shall be in them. We see this doctrine further expounded in Paul's epistles. "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27). This mystery of the kingdom was not revealed during Jesus's earthly ministry - if it were known, the princes of the world would not have crucified the Lord of glory, which Paul states in 1 Cor 2. Up until Pentecost, the disciples neither saw nor entered the kingdom of God (recall: Jesus said you needed to be born again to do either), as shown by the foolish question in Acts 1:6. They were still expecting a visible kingdom with an earthly throne, notwithstanding that Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36) and comes not with observation (Luke 17:20-21).

    But miracles themselves were a frequent occurrence during Jesus's earthly ministry. Jesus gave the 70 power over the spirits. But what did He say to them? He said rejoice not that the spirits are subject to you - rejoice that your names are written in heaven (Luke 10:20). Here's where we must look, and this is the heart of the issue. The Pentecostals pursue miracles, and yet they deny the gospel. (Well, most of them do, but not all.) Frankly, they deny the Spirit's work of sealing the believer, of the earnest of the Spirit in the heart of the believer. Because if they affirmed the Spirit's work here, they would affirm and defend the doctrine of eternal security.

    I think this is a good overview of the subject of Holy Spirit baptism by Sam Storms. Ultimately, he and I are on the same page here. And he’s actually a continuationist, not a cessationist.

    https://www.samstorms.org/all-articl...irit---part-i/

    The conclusion here is good: "Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a metaphor that describes our experience of the Spirit at conversion."

    We are baptized into Christ and enjoy His presence forever. We are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3). God lives in us personally and permanently. We are His very property, His very temple.

    I will reveal a little something as to my personal knowledge on this subject, but I won't divulge additional details on the public forum, as this is personal.

    Me, I participated in a Pentecostal baptism of the Holy Spirit on March 2, 2019.

    However, I have come to realize that I in fact believed the gospel and received the Holy Spirit several weeks earlier, not in March 2019. It was either January 24 or January 25 of 2019. It really wasn’t until almost a month after I first told you I’d become a Christian that I actually became one. I needed first to repent fully towards God, be convicted of sin, and seek His righteousness.

    It was the experience in January that has been oil in my lamp ever since it happened. I experienced this event in the form of personal testimony as to the certitude and security of my salvation. Though I was ignorant of the Bible teaching on this matter for a long time, I now see it taught in places like Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 2 Cor 5:5, John 7:37-39, John 14:16-17, Gal 3:2, Gal 3:14, Rom 8:15-17, Rom 1:16-17, 1 Cor 2:4-16, 1 Thess 1:4-5, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 1 John 2:20, 1 John 2:27, 1 John 4:13, 1 John 5:9-10.

    I like John Gill's commentaries on 2 Cor 1:22 and Eph 1:13. Of course, Scripture is the final authority, and never man. Nevertheless, Gill is a respected man of God whose interpretation of these verses comports with mine. I have posted them below (including only the last part of the commentary on Eph 1:13).

    2 Corinthians 1:22, (GILL), Who hath also sealed us,.... "Two" things more are here attributed to God; "first", the sealing of his people. The use of seals is various, as to denote property in things, to distinguish one thing from another, to show esteem and affection for persons or things, and for security and protection, and to hide and conceal; all which might be applied to sealing, as expressive of the grace of God to his people, in claiming a property in them, distinguishing them from the rest of the world, setting his affections on them, securing and protecting their persons, and hiding them under the shadow of his wings: but sometimes a seal is used to certify, make sure, or assure the truth of a thing; see Joh 3:33 in which sense the word "sealing" is used here, and intends that assurance which God gives his people of their interest in his love, and the covenant of grace; of their election of God, and redemption by Christ; of their interest in Christ, and union with him; of their justification by him, and adoption through him; of the truth of grace in their hearts, their perseverance in it, and sure and certain enjoyment of eternal glory. The persons thus sealed are not carnal and unconverted persons, only believers in Christ, and these, after they commence such; the seal by which they are sealed, is not any of the ordinances, as circumcision under the Old Testament, or baptism, or the Lord's supper under the New; for these are no seals, nor are they ever so called; but the Spirit of God himself, as the Holy Spirit of promise; for the same who, in the next clause, is called the earnest, is the seal; see Eph 1:13. "Secondly", the giving of the earnest of the Spirit:

    and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts: by "the Spirit" is meant, not the gifts and graces of the Spirit merely, but the Spirit of God and Christ himself; who was concerned in the creation of the world, in inditing the Scriptures, in forming and filling the human nature of Christ, and in his resurrection from the dead; he himself is given as an "earnest": the word arrabwn, here used, and in 2Co 5:5 is the Hebrew word Nwbre, and comes from bre, which signifies "to become a surety, to give a pledge"; and is used for a pledge in covenants and bargains, both in Scripture, see Ge 38:17, and in Jewish writings [d]; which is given as an earnest, and in part of what it is a pledge of, and is never returned: the Spirit of God is an earnest or pledge of the heavenly inheritance, which is not only prepared for us, and promised to us, and Christ is in the possession of in our nature, in our room and stead, and as our representative; but the Spirit of God also is sent down "into our hearts" as a pledge of it; where he dwells as in his temple, supplies us with all grace, witnesses to us our sonship, and assures us of the heavenly glory: and as such he is "given"; and an unmerited free grace gift he is; for him to be given in this manner, and for such a purpose, is a wonderful display of the love of the Father, and of the Son, and is a surprising instance of his grace and condescension of the Spirit, and for which we should be abundantly thankful.

    [d] Midrash Megillath Esther, fol. 94. 2. Maimon. Hilch. Mechira, c. 7. sect. 1. & c. 11. sect. 4.

    Eph 1:13 (last clause)

    ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise. This cannot have respect to the Father's sealing his people in election, with the seal of his foreknowledge, 2Ti 2:19 for that is before faith, and is within himself, and not on them, and is distinct from the Spirit's work; and for the same reasons it cannot design the Son's affection to them, setting them as a seal on his arm and heart, So 8:6, or his asserting his property in them, and the security and protection of them, So 4:12, nor the Spirit's finishing and completing his own work of grace upon the soul, in which sense the word is used, Ro 15:28 for this as yet was not done upon these believing Ephesians; nor the confirming the Gospel, and the saints in it, by the extraordinary effusion of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, or by his extraordinary works which attended the ministry of the word, to the establishing of it, and the faith of men in it; since these were not common to believers, nor did they continue; whereas the believing Ephesians, in common, were sealed; and the Spirit of God continues still as a sealer of his people, and as an earnest and pledge of their inheritance until the day of redemption; but it is to be understood of the confirming, certifying, and assuring the saints, as to their interest in the favour of God, and in the blessings of grace, of every kind, and their right and title to the heavenly glory; See Gill on "2Co 1:22", and the seal of these things is not circumcision, nor baptism, nor the Lord's supper, nor even the graces of the Spirit; but the Spirit himself, who witnesses to the spirits of believers the truth of these things, and that as a "spirit of promise": so called, both because he is the Spirit promised, as the Syriac and Ethiopic versions render it, whom the Father and Christ had promised, and who was sent by them; and because he usually seals, or certifies believers of the truth of the above things, by opening and applying a word of promise to them: and which he does also, as the "Holy" Spirit; for this sealing work of his leaves a greater impress of holiness upon the soul, and engages more to acts of holiness; wherefore the doctrine of assurance is no licentious doctrine; no persons are so holy as those who are truly possessed of that grace; and as for such who pretend unto it, and live in sin, it is a certain thing that they in reality know nothing of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer
    Me, I participated in a Pentecostal baptism of the Holy Spirit on March 2, 2019.
    What do you mean by this, if I may ask?


    If you read in the Gospel of John toward the end, when the resurrected Jesus appeared to his disciples, before he went to heaven, he blowed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit". So, they received the Holy Spirit then. Even so, Jesus told them to remain in Jerusalem until they have received the "Promise of the Father". And by that, he meant the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (John baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit). So, in Acts chapter two when the disciples were gathered together and waiting on the promise as Jesus instructed them, there suddenly came the sound of a mighty rushing wind, and tongues of fire came and divided and came upon them, and they were all "filled" with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues. They had received the Promise of the Father, to equip them with power to be witnesses of Jesus and spread the Gospel.

    So, here you see that initially the disciples received the Holy Spirit when Jesus blowed on them, but afterwards they had a second experience of being "filled/baptized" with the Holy Spirit to give them power and equip them for ministry.

    These experiences were not unique to the apostles, but are meant for every believer and disciple of Jesus, until this day.
    Last edited by Loki; 08-09-2020 at 07:10 AM.

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    And Wanderer, you make accusations against Pentecostals that you obviously heard from someone else, you're just repeating the gossip. But here's the thing: those accusations are false, not true. I know, I've been in Pentecostal circles for many years and it simply isn't true what you accuse them of (well, there might be some that fit the charge but certainly not a majority!). So, if I were you I would be more careful about what I say about other people, and accuse them of. Remember we will all stand before Jesus one day. Falsely accusing his people is not cool...that is something the devil excels in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    What do you mean by this, if I may ask?


    If you read in the Gospel of John toward the end, when the resurrected Jesus appeared to his disciples, before he went to heaven, he blowed on them and said: "Receive the Holy Spirit". So, they received the Holy Spirit then. Even so, Jesus told them to remain in Jerusalem until they have received the "Promise of the Father". And by that, he meant the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (John baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit). So, in Acts chapter two when the disciples were gathered together and waiting on the promise as Jesus instructed them, there suddenly came the sound of a mighty rushing wind, and tongues of fire came and divided and came upon them, and they were all "filled" with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues. They had received the Promise of the Father, to equip them with power to be witnesses of Jesus and spread the Gospel.

    So, here you see that initially the disciples received the Holy Spirit when Jesus blowed on them, but afterwards they had a second experience of being "filled/baptized" with the Holy Spirit to give them power and equip them for ministry.

    These experiences were not unique to the apostles, but are meant for every believer and disciple of Jesus, until this day.

    So if you don't speak in tongues you are not saved?

    Plus, speaking in tongues means speaking in different languages. Have you spoken in different languages spontaneously before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    So if you don't speak in tongues you are not saved?

    Plus, speaking in tongues means speaking in different languages. Have you spoken in different languages spontaneously before?
    No, nobody said that! It's a gift from God, it's not something that pertains to your salvation.

    Yes, I have spoken in tongues and I do speak in tongues regularly in prayer to God...it is very useful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No, nobody said that! It's a gift from God, it's not something that pertains to your salvation.

    Yes, I have spoken in tongues and I do speak in tongues regularly in prayer to God...it is very useful.
    Ok brother. That's good. I guess we are all gifted in different ways.

    I haven't spoken in tongues but i am definitely feeling much better when i pray lately. It feels like it's more deep and meaningful, and like it's being heard. In the past i would pray, and not feel like this. The words that come out of my mouth do not feel vain anymore.

    All glory to God.

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