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Thread: Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Results v2

  1. #261
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    I don't think he is russified, Lemgrant gave me his results a year and three months ago, is before I saw all these result posted after this here, and I quickly made a conclusion what he is Gagauz because of results, and because of the surnames, but now since I know more, his result clearly show what he is not Gagauz/Bulgarian with such high Baltic, and have just mixed ancestry.
    Yeah, I was going to ask if you thought he's Gagauz/Bulgarian because of the East Med rate. His Baltic+North Atlantic is visibly outlying compared to other Gagauz and Bulgarians.
    The first two are Bulgarians, while the rest are Gagauz.

    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan N_Atlantic+Baltic
    22.13 22.19 17.51 12.44 19.22 4.36 0.31 0 1.73 0 0.13 0 0 44.32
    24.47 17.09 19.61 13.66 17.82 2.93 2.64 0 0.69 0.81 0.14 0 0.15 41.56
    20.35 22.57 20.05 9.76 21.59 1.78 0.52 0.44 0.24 0.71 1.17 0 0.83 42.92
    20.86 22.55 19.63 14.32 15.61 1.46 4.07 0 0 0.59 0.90 0 0 43.41
    20.32 21.66 19.13 10.98 20.73 4.52 1.73 0.32 0 0.36 0.25 0 0 41.98
    21.09 22.41 17.32 15.55 22.11 0.31 0 0 0.39 0.82 0 0 0 43.50
    15.86 26.45 18.63 15.05 16.84 2.60 1.10 1.32 0 0 0.66 1.07 0.42 42.31
    14.45 25.74 20.64 15.25 19.48 0.73 0.33 0.79 1.82 0.12 0.66 0 0 40.19
    20.46 22.27 16.99 12.40 22.03 1.37 0.01 2.46 0.53 0.04 0 1.44 0 42.73
    21.35 20.55 16.78 16.18 19.30 2.24 0 0 2.42 0 0.38 0.79 0 41.90
    18.87 23.13 16.26 12.63 22.35 3.12 0 0.27 3.12 0 0 0 0.26 42.00
    22.03 18.65 16.39 14.57 23.73 2.27 0 0.03 2.08 0 0 0.25 0 40.68

    He seems to fit pretty well in the South Moldovan range.
    First two are from Hincesti, but they also fit well in the South.
    Brown - Cimislia
    Violet - Causeni
    Green - Causeni
    Dark grey - Eurogenes samples CM2678489 and JR2297171, who we are guessing to be from the South or closer to the Centre
    Black - Cahul
    Blue - Stefan Voda (Caplani)
    Last one - Bolhrad and Ismail Moldovan from Ukraine

    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    18.71 29.10 18.39 10.79 14.63 4.48 0 0.85 0 2.02 0.74 0.25 0
    23.31 29.55 17.84 7.30 16.55 1.29 1.96 0.80 0.24 0.79 0.35 0 0
    21.75 29.53 15.63 11.25 16.39 0.98 1.08 0 3.24 0 0.15 0 0
    25.66 20.54 19.38 7.46 19.11 3.14 0 1.73 1.97 0 0.31 0.71 0
    24.58 26.99 16.65 9.73 18.18 0.81 0.65 0 0 1.67 0.67 0 0.08
    19.73 30.48 16.50 10.45 18.86 0.85 0 1.51 0 0.67 0.95 0 0
    19.26 30.07 16.76 10.77 19.17 0.73 0 1.55 0.08 0.73 0.87 0 0
    25.52 22.73 18.64 10.79 16.15 1.81 0.56 0.39 1.59 1.43 0.39 0 0
    22.29 23.14 18.52 9.30 22.34 0.76 0 0.51 1.65 0.89 0.23 0.38 0
    22.37 27.22 20.67 11.29 12.72 2.47 0.35 0 2.30 0.43 0.19 0 0
    25.53 21.30 17.70 11.50 17.99 1.44 0.76 1.26 0.73 1.10 0.57 0 0.15
    22.73 24.91 19.63 10.59 16.07 1.66 1.38 0.20 1.36 0.94 0.53 0 0
    21.01 25.42 16.62 11.92 18.51 4.11 0.58 0 0 0 0.50 0.51 0.82
    18.42 25.95 16.17 15.44 17.84 3.82 0.56 0.56 0 1.25 0 0 0
    18.27 19.97 19.01 15.32 19.44 4.68 0.12 1.50 0.68 0.54 0 0 0.48
    19.84 23.81 19.67 11.16 19.93 3.16 0 0.00 1.21 0.29 0.52 0 0.40
    22.08 23.50 19.95 9.57 19.50 3.24 0 1.74 0.34 0 0.08 0 0
    16.91 24.06 20.61 12.07 23.58 0 0.52 0 1.03 0 0.29 0.45 0.50
    20.23 23.81 21.69 7.85 19.98 3.35 0 0 2.91 0 0.19 0 0
    21.08 28.93 14.78 9.89 19.66 4.48 0.57 0.61 0 0 0 0 0
    21.23 24.68 15.16 12.29 20.35 3.67 0 0 2.38 0 0.25 0 0
    26.39 24.34 17.44 13.21 12.41 4.18 0 0.31 0.71 0 0.89 0 0.12
    18.04 26.87 17.24 12.49 19.31 2.99 0.68 0.27 1.35 0.76 0 0 0
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
    Autosomal DNA
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    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

  2. #262
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    I don't think he is russified,
    There are some interesting rural mixes in the South. I've posted everything that I had from Moldova on 23andme, which is like 20-30 samples if I am not mistaken. But for MyHeritage, together with my family's matches, I found so far about 90 DNA relatives from Moldova. So I have a lot of data for an interesting thread to look at regional variations. But I won't open it until MyHeritage updates their algorithm later this year, as when compared to GEDmatch it looks like a lot of relevant components for our region are very unstable. And to go back to my first point about mixes in the South, she is from the village of Novotroitcoe or just Troitcoe in Cimislia, and ethnically half Moldovan and half Russian. It's hard to guess how she would score exactly on GEDmatch due to the problems that I've mentioned, but I am guessing that like someone from the Centre to North.
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
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    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

  3. #263
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Half from Republic of Moldova, half from Banat, Romania. His Moldovan side could be Caplani, Stefan Voda-like, because he scores pretty much like Wallachians.



    v5.2


    v5.9


    Could be a good friend for Aspirin



    Quote Originally Posted by Reddit
    My mother is Moldavian, yet I score only 7.1% for EE and all rest for Romania, without traces in any other Balkan countries.


    I don't really believe romanians are an ethnicity, so I might be biased. All the balkan populations share a lot of DNA with each other and there wasn't enough time for country-wide ethnicities to form.


    The 23andme groups are slightly inaccurate because of this, there's little to no similarity in ancestral lineage between the average romanian and the average Greek, but there is some similarity between romanians and eastern Europeans.


    When I lived in Moscow, I could pass as a local so that should say something. Whereas greeks were obvious from a mile away.

    Even mainland romanians don't consider each other brothers. Oltenians, Moldovans, Transylvanians, Bucharest people.. they seem to hate each other unfortunately.


    Moldovans on average nowadays score pretty highly on ancestral ties to ukrainians and Slavic ethnicities. Their phenotype is also "whiter" than of the average romanian, for example you would also pass as a Russian in Russia, whereas many romanians would draw similarities to Turks on phenotype.
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
    Autosomal DNA
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    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Basescul View Post
    Caplani, Stefan Voda
    What is the demographic and ethnic history of this area? Was it always Romance-speaking?


  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    What is the demographic and ethnic history of this area? Was it always Romance-speaking?
    Between 10th and 14th centuries the area was under control of various turkic nomadic populations (pechenegs, cumans and mongolo-tatars). In second half of 14th century this area became part of Moldavian principality till first half of 16th century. In 1538 vast majority of Budjak was annexed by Ottomans Turks after the big campaign of Suleiman against Moldova. After this, Turks encouraged colonization with plenty of Turkic nomads, especially with plenty of Nogais who came from steppes near Caspian sea who in 17th century formed the so called "Budjak Horde". In late 18th-early 19th century as a results of plenty Russo-Turkish wars Tatars were expelled from here, many moved to Dobrudja, other were colonized by Russians near Caucasus region. In early 19th century when Russian annexed the Eastern half of Moldavian principality, on southern lands annexed by Turks in 16th century they started to invite plenty of colonists from Balkans, especially Bulgarian and Gagauz, but other ethnicites too, like Greeks, Albanians, Ukrainians and local Moldavians from northern areas. Before, in territories controlled by Tatars Moldavians were very few, many moved here from different areas. About Caplani, the name of the village is Turkic and is related to Tatars who lived here, but today inhabitants came in this area in late 18th-early 19th century after Tatars were expelled from here.
    Last edited by Aspirin; 10-24-2020 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #266
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    but today inhabitants came in this area in late 18th-early 19th century after Tatars were expelled from here.


    Do we have any records of where in Moldova they came from? I suppose we could look at where their surnames are also found in the country, but that wouldn't necessarily mean that they came from there.
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
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    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

  7. #267
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    About Caplani, the name of the village is Turkic and is related to Tatars who lived here, but today inhabitants came in this area in late 18th-early 19th century after Tatars were expelled from here.
    Yeah, not only in Caplani, but generally in the South, people are noticeably less East Asian/Siberian than in the Central and Northern regions. Theoretically it should have been the opposite, due to Steppe migrations and settlements. But the Turkic hints exist in some surnames in Moldova.
    In Caplani, there are also some interesting surnames.

    https://localitati.casata.md/index.p...litate&id=8515

    The most popular ones, even being Romanian, they hint at nomadic lifestyles:

    Cotorobai - from "to wander" or "to rummage"
    Calalb - white horse
    Bolozan - DEX says that it comes from Turkish. It's a kind of large ship. "boloz f. un fel de luntre mare: șapte bolozale și șapte sandale POP. [Vechiu-rom. bolozan = turc. BOLOZAN]. La Brăila-n vale, Șepte bolozale Și șepte sandale. ALECSANDRI, P. P. 116"
    Carabulea - "cara" = Turkic "black", Bulea comes from Bulu and it means "zdreanta" or filth
    Last edited by Ion Basescul; 11-05-2020 at 12:41 PM.
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
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  8. #268
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Basescul View Post
    A nice visualisation of all the ethnicities from villages, towns and cities in Republic of Moldova, based on the 2004 census. The central region is the most homogeneously Moldovan/Romanian, while both the North and South are heavily mixed and probably assimilated. From North to Centre and South, most villages are ethnically Moldovan/Romanian along the rivers, Prut in the West and Dniester in the East.
    When you hear someone claim that Moldovans from Romanian Moldavia are mixed with Wallachians (few if any migrate from the South or West into Moldavia), don't forget to quote this.

    Blue - Moldovan/Romanian
    Green - Ukrainian
    Pink - Russian
    Dark Yellow - Gagauz
    Orange - Bulgarian
    Violet - Roma/Gypsy
    Light Yellow - Jewish
    Cyan - Polish
    Grey - Other


    An update on this map. Despite being labelled as being from 2004 where I grabbed it from, this is clearly not the case. I've just noticed the distribution of Jewish in Chisinau, so this must map must be referencing the ethnic distribution in the country either immediately after WW2 or in 1989.
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
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  9. #269
    Veteran Member Ion Basescul's Avatar
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    I looked at min and max values (the range) for each component in K13 of people from Republic of Moldova. That was done in order to understand the true diversity of people identifying as Moldovan/Romanian, since a lot of them will obviously be different from the average and diverge either up or down from those values.

    Name N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    Moldovan_min 16.91 (Stefan Voda) 19.97 (Stefan Voda) 9.74 (Floresti) 5.01 (Anenii Noi) 9.41 (Transnistria) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Moldovan_max 28.97 (Balti) 37.99 (Edinet) 21.69 (Stefan Voda) 15.44 (Stefan Voda) 23.58 (Stefan Voda) 4.68 (Stefan Voda) 3.54 (Balti) 2.47 (Floresti) 3.51 (Balti) 2.61 (Balti) 1.70 (Ungheni) 1.34 (Balti) 1.42 (Soldanesti)
    Moldova_avg_weighted 23.44 30.81 15.17 10.15 14.60 1.62 0.99 0.56 1.38 0.56 0.38 0.13 0.21
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
    Autosomal DNA
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    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

  10. #270
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    From Iasi (Romania's Moldavia)

    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    22.27 30.54 17.17 8.17 14.85 3.25 0 0.06 2.15 1.15 0.39 0 0



    Compared to others from Iasi

    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    19.78 25.27 16.76 13.97 13.46 3.11 3.80 1.10 0.58 1.21 0.28 0.67 0
    28.67 29.30 14.20 10.23 14.22 0 0.12 1.51 0 0.75 0.79 0.21 0
    20.77 30.57 15.51 11.77 12.12 3.48 2.53 0 1.45 0.35 1.46 0 0
    21.55 33.35 16.78 7.05 17.78 0.86 0 1.07 0.11 0.76 0 0 0.69
    25.87 26.84 16.97 10.82 15.72 1.10 0.45 0.17 0.89 0 0.85 0 0.32
    23.47 21.46 16.35 9.42 19.46 4.83 0.78 1.14 2.38 0 0.52 0 0.19
    27.56 28.87 11.97 7.40 17.56 0 2.72 0 2.26 0.96 0.20 0.42 0.08
    24.97 24.41 19.71 10.78 13.32 3.16 0 2.38 0.77 0.50 0 0 0
    23.48 28.95 17.21 10.44 13.88 3.45 0 1.27 1.19 0 0.14 0 0
    22.25 28.36 18.26 9.25 15.17 2.56 0.39 2.70 0 0.92 0.09 0 0
    25.57 32.02 16.18 8.64 11.89 1.89 0.18 1.76 0 0.61 0 0.52 0.75
    22.18 29.43 15.58 8.53 18.01 0.20 2.99 0 1.79 0.36 0.94 0 0
    28.33 26.91 14.13 10.44 14.83 1.24 2.53 0 0.96 0.33 0 0 0.30


    Distance to: Iasi_ind
    3.27762109 Moldova_average
    3.44463351 Serb_B&H_Krajina
    3.52983002 Serb_B&H
    3.66529671 Moldova_Centre
    3.70881383 Serb_Serbia_West&Central
    3.76531539 Serb_Serbia
    3.77063655 Serb
    3.87445480 Serb
    3.92890570 Romania_Moldavia_North
    3.99829964 Serb_B&H_Herzegovina
    4.04452717 Romania_Maramures
    4.10919700 Serb_Croatia_Lika
    4.26900457 Bosniak
    4.31034801 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
    4.33972349 Serb_Croatia_Kordun&Banija
    4.34520425 Serb_Serbia_South&East
    4.43450110 Serb_Croatia
    4.54709798 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
    4.56054821 Serb_B&H_Bosnia_proper
    4.59736881 Bosniak_Sarajevo
    5.20304718 Bosniak_Krajina
    5.20702410 Romania_Moldavia_South
    5.24780907 Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia
    5.42022140 Croat_B&H
    5.62507778 Serb_Croatia_Dalmatia

    Distance to: Iasi_ind
    3.27762109 Moldova_average
    3.66529671 Moldova_Centru
    3.92890570 Romania_Moldova_Nord
    4.04452717 Romania_Maramures
    5.20702410 Romania_Moldova_Sud
    6.01291111 Moldova_Nord
    6.13969055 Romania_Transilvania
    6.29729307 Romania_Crisana
    6.48209071 Romania_Moldova_Csango
    6.55736990 Romania_Banat
    6.92738046 Moldova_Sud
    7.32223327 Romania_Oltenia
    7.52440695 Romania_Dobrogea
    7.56985158 Romania_Transilvania_Szekely
    7.88092000 Romania_Transilvania_Hungarian
    8.03693349 Romania_Muntenia
    9.47710399 Bulgarian
    10.78370530 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
    12.62611975 Aromanian_North-Macedonia-Highlander
    13.01293203 Aromanian_North-Macedonia
    16.67228539 Ukrainian_Lviv
    16.97816539 Romania_Transilvania_Saxon
    18.02044949 Aromanian_Central-Macedonia
    26.60469132 Crimean_Tatar
    27.43139807 Romania_Dobruja_Tatar
    32.17990677 Romania_Jewish
    35.08415882 Romania_Roma

    -Moldova
    Distance: 232.0279% / 2.32027920
    Target: Iasi_ind
    51.1 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
    23.2 Aromanian_North-Macedonia-Highlander
    20.1 Aromanian_North-Macedonia
    5.6 Romania_Dobruja_Tatar

    -Aromanian, Ukrainian
    Distance: 355.4177% / 3.55417668
    Target: Iasi_ind
    52.4 Romania_Maramures
    43.9 Romania_Moldova_Nord
    3.7 Romania_Dobruja_Tatar

    -Maramures
    Distance: 368.0659% / 3.68065886
    Target: Iasi_ind
    79.5 Romania_Moldova_Nord
    18.0 Romania_Banat
    2.5 Romania_Dobruja_Tatar
    Recent ancestry: 2/4 Central Moldova (Orhei district), 1/4 Southern Moldova (Cahul district), 1/4 Northern Moldova (Briceni district)
    Autosomal DNA
    Taxonomy
    Moldova and Romania Eurogenes K13

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