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Thread: Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Results v2

  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    it amazes me how Prut is no border, genetically speaking,
    One thing to add here is that it makes sense historically for Romanians in both Romanian Moldavia and Republic of Moldova to be similar on comparable latitudes in the Centre and North of the country.
    But for the South of Republic of Moldova, this is probably guaranteed for villages that hug the Prut river. But for the rest, it might not be as predictable.

    Remember that for the Southern region, I have the least amount of samples and a significant chunk come from the same village. I personally expect Southerners to be closer to Centrals and Northerners than it might appear today. Obviously those on the Prut will likely be more Southern on average, but I don't expect anything crazy like in outliers of Caplani. It will likely land somewhere in the Galati-Vaslui ranges for unmixed people, which combine both Central and Southern-like results.
    After all, those stranding the Prut up to about Vadul lui Isac - Colibasi are genuine old Southern Moldovans.

    Elsewhere in the South however, we would probably get either 1) same Moldovans/Romanians as in the South, Centre and North, 2) Bulgarians/Gagauz, 3) Russians/Ukrainians, 4) mixes of all

    Here's my rationale for that. When we think of Moldavia historically, we think of this map:



    But that's simply due to nationalism, because Moldavia looked like that for less than one hundred years in the 14th-15th centuries.
    Up to modern times (from roughly 1484 to 1812), Moldavia actually looked like this, with a very brief period of reconquest during Mihai Viteazul's time:






    And here's my rendition superimposed on villages, where I traced by following the names of the villages from above.




    Red = current borders of Republic of Moldova
    Black = limit of Moldova between 1484-1812; South and East of it were proper Ottoman lands where very few Moldovans/Romanians lived.
    This territory was repopulated by Moldovans descending from further North or those by the Prut moving East after 1812.
    Here also came waves of Bulgarians/Gagauz, Russians, Ukrainians and Germans.
    Here you could find very Southern, very Northern people, and everything in-between; sometimes in very unexpected places because of this repopulation.

    Like in the case of the village of Caplani from Stefan Voda, from where the academic Reich lab samples come. There the inhabitants are almost unanimously Moldovans/Romanians nowadays, but ethnically 6/10 of those tested look like Southern Bulgarians, whereas others like more typical Moldovans. Their surnames have a strong Russian element in some, which can also mean that there was a three-way national mix in there and the Romanian cultural element prevailed.

    But then after 4 villages upwards from them in Festelita, there are 2 sisters whom I match on 23andme. They score around 50% Eastern Euro and 50% Balkan. These results are on the Northern-most cline and considering how the village is surrounded by a Russian and Ukrainian village, I wouldn't be surprised if some mix from there occurred. However, that's not necessary, because, again, this is the place that wasn't under Moldova's control for 400 years. Because of that, they are likely descendants of people who have resettled the village after 1812.
    Therefore, they could simply be unmixed Moldovans/Romanians who trace ancestry to anywhere in the Central-Northern region.

    TL;DR: full Stefan Voda, Causeni, Cimislia, parts of Anenii Noi, Hincesti, Leova, Cantemir and Cahul districts, which were not part of Moldavia between 1484-1812, were resettled very recently with Moldovans from elsewhere in the country. Some of the villages there were purely founded by colonists of Bulgarian/Gagauz, Russian/Ukrainian and German descent (most Germans left however). It is not unusual for all elements to mix in some villages. Because of this heterogenity, results there likely range from 1) Southern Bulgarian like to 2) typical old Moldovan at Southern latitudes (similar to Galati county), to 3) Central and Northern Moldovans who helped resettle and romanise the region after 1812, in the vacuum left by Tatars, to 4) Russian and Ukrainian.
    Last edited by Ion Basescul; 10-26-2021 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #642
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    From Neamt county



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    27.54 26.15 14.72 10.03 17.47 0.53 0.78 0 0.93 0.96 0.89 0 0
    26.68 27.04 12.78 9.74 19.03 0 0 0.54 1.97 0.95 0.62 0.59 0



    Distance to: Neamt_1
    3.75508988 Romania_Crisana
    4.52028760 Romania_Moldavia_South
    4.53843585 Romania_Transylvania
    4.82077795 Romania_Maramures
    4.82574347 Romania_average
    4.90003061 Romania_Banat
    5.06750432 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
    5.32236789 Montenegrin
    5.33475398 Serb_Serbia_Central
    5.42107923 Serb_Serbia_South
    5.44271991 Serb_Herzegovina
    5.54682792 Serb_Serbia_West
    5.60593436 Serb
    5.64690181 Serb_Croatia
    5.66182833 Serb_Southern_Montenegro
    5.82450856 Romania_Oltenia
    5.93808892 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    6.03469138 Bosniak_Sandzak
    6.28300883 Romania_Wallachia
    6.38924878 Romania_Muntenia
    6.50023077 Romania_Moldavia_North
    6.54819823 Moldova_South
    6.58242357 Romania_Dobruja
    6.62026435 Bulgaria_Southwestern
    6.71220530 Bulgaria_Northwestern

    Distance to: Neamt_2
    5.41519159 Romania_Crisana
    5.75748209 Romania_Moldavia_South
    6.02468256 Romania_Transylvania
    6.06900321 Romania_average
    6.23991987 Serb_Serbia_Central
    6.25379085 Romania_Banat
    6.29607020 Serb_Serbia_South
    6.39922652 Romania_Maramures
    6.41212913 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
    6.69679028 Serb_Herzegovina
    6.76698604 Serb_Croatia
    6.84649545 Serb
    6.90139116 Montenegrin
    7.10936706 Serb_Serbia_West
    7.10944442 Romania_Moldavia_North
    7.14825153 Romania_Oltenia
    7.25425392 Romania_Wallachia
    7.28695410 Bulgaria_Northwestern
    7.29403181 Romania_Muntenia
    7.32889487 Moldova_South
    7.33099584 Serb_Southern_Montenegro
    7.40628787 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    7.44225100 Romania_Dobruja
    7.70087657 Bosniak_Sandzak
    7.74952257 Bulgaria_Southwestern

  3. #643
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    From Suceava county



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    27.61 32.95 16.19 8.21 9.91 1.59 0 0 1.81 0.41 0.54 0.77 0

    Distance to: Suceava
    2.95721152 Hungarian_Alföld
    2.95788776 Croat
    3.82766247 Croat_East
    3.87914939 Croat_North
    3.91019181 Hungarian
    4.22356485 Csángó-Ceangău
    4.31155424 Croat_West
    4.34824102 Croat_South
    4.51239404 Bosniak_Bosnia
    4.55240596 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
    5.13707115 Slovenian
    5.26688713 Bosniak
    5.32971857 Moldova_North
    5.36091410 Hungarian_North
    5.39242988 Poland_Lemko
    5.64687524 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    5.65286653 Serb_Bosnia
    5.86718842 Romania_Moldavia_North
    6.33330088 Ukrainian_Carpathian
    6.65393117 Moldova_Centre
    6.70204446 Romania_Maramures
    6.72966567 Serb_Serbia_West
    6.78616239 Serb_Croatia
    6.87751409 Moldova_average
    7.02630059 Slovak

  4. #644
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    Russophone (Ukrainian surname) from Chisinau

    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    24.23 41.22 12.55 8.69 10.92 0 1.48 0 0 0 0.83 0 0.05

    Distance to: Russophone_Ukrainian
    4.05275215 Moldova_Ukrainian
    4.84655548 Ukrainian_Carpathian
    5.70873892 Ukrainian_Galicia
    6.07204249 Poland_Lemko
    6.91136021 Bosniak_Bosnia
    7.15010489 Polish_Southeast
    7.79796127 Croat_East
    7.80640762 Ukrainian
    8.06454586 Polish_Silesia
    8.14101345 Moldova_North
    8.52354973 South_Polish
    8.77473077 Slovak
    9.01398358 Polish_Lower_Silesia
    9.05672126 Hungarian_North
    9.10003297 Russian_Southwest
    9.30173640 Polish_Silesia
    9.39946275 Polish_Kielce
    9.39946275 Polish_Kielce
    9.51963235 Polish_Mazovia
    9.57363045 Croat_North
    9.60323383 Croat
    9.63891073 Polish_Mazovia
    9.64635164 Polish_Staropolska
    9.71774151 Polish_Lesser_Poland
    9.93564794 Bosniak

  5. #645
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    From Neamt county



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    26.14 25.73 16.95 11.97 14.22 2.87 0.44 0.28 0 0.62 0.78 0 0

    Distance to: Neamt
    4.28468202 Romanian_Crișana
    4.34352391 Romanian_Transylvania
    4.47263904 Romanian_Maramureș
    4.50714988 Romanian_South-Moldavia
    4.54415009 Romanian_Banat
    4.60918648 Romanian
    4.63085305 Montenegrin
    4.79709287 Serb_Montenegro
    4.99448696 Serb_West
    5.01052891 Serb_Vojvodina
    5.13419906 Serb_Herzegovina
    5.25928702 Serb_South
    5.26019962 Serb
    5.37688572 Romanian_Oltenia
    5.41921581 Bosniak_Sandžak
    5.75596213 Serb_Croatia
    5.90943314 Serb_Central
    5.92336897 Moldovan_South
    5.95499790 Romanian_Wallachia
    6.00562237 Bulgarian_Southwestern
    6.12951058 Romanian_Muntenia
    6.16708197 Romanian_Dobruja
    6.39514660 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    6.50535164 Romanian_North-Moldavia
    6.66106598 Serb_Republika_Srpska

  6. #646
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    From Botosani county



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    25.42 34.40 15.24 7.94 11.32 1.43 0 2.37 0 1.21 0 0.66 0

    Distance to: Botosani
    3.01789662 Bosniak
    3.38257299 Croat_East
    3.73605407 Moldovan_North
    3.90008974 Croat
    4.38912292 Croat_South
    4.93915985 Hungarian_Alföld
    5.08642310 Lemko_Poland
    5.21345375 Croat_West
    5.32466900 Serb_Republika_Srpska
    5.47131611 Ukrainian_Carpathians
    5.48545349 Croat_North
    5.48952639 Romanian_North-Moldavia
    5.82633676 Moldovan_Central
    5.90333804 Moldovan
    6.09952457 Hungarian
    6.34599874 Csángó-Ceangău
    6.38963223 Hungarian_North
    6.59748437 Serb_Croatia
    6.89360573 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
    6.96134326 Slovenian
    7.02435762 Romanian_Maramureș
    7.09224929 Serb_West
    7.27332111 Serb
    7.38051489 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    7.64962091 Serb_Central

  7. #647
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    Neamt county is very close to me.
    Exactly the same baltic score, very similar NA and East_Med. Relatively high Red_Sea too. If it had higher (+3) West_Med and lower (-3) Western_Asian it would be exactly like me.

  8. #648
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    From Bacau



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    26.68 25.43 15.29 9.22 15.87 4.55 0 1.39 0.67 0.90 0 0 0

    Distance to: Bacau
    4.50632888 Romanian_South-Moldavia
    4.59974999 Romanian_Crișana
    4.68183725 Romanian_Transylvania
    4.83790244 Romanian_Maramureș
    4.95655122 Romanian
    5.01650277 Romanian_Banat
    5.13778162 Montenegrin
    5.37852210 Serb_Montenegro
    5.39599852 Serb_Vojvodina
    5.45083480 Serb_Herzegovina
    5.53710213 Serb_South
    5.68397748 Serb_Central
    5.87143083 Romanian_Oltenia
    5.87766110 Serb
    5.88857368 Serb_West
    6.06360454 Serb_Croatia
    6.07902130 Bosniak_Sandžak
    6.11603630 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    6.30606058 Romanian_Wallachia
    6.39305091 Moldovan_South
    6.43540985 Romanian_Muntenia
    6.48630095 Romanian_Dobruja
    6.55561591 Bulgarian_Southwestern
    6.67633882 Bulgarian_Northwestern
    6.71532576 Romanian_North-Moldavia

  9. #649
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    From Galati



    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    22.92 26.14 20.77 10.81 15.08 1.52 0.16 1.04 0.80 0.77 0 0 0

    Distance to: Galati
    3.74523698 Serb_Montenegro
    3.79034299 Montenegrin
    4.10903882 Bosniak_Sandžak
    4.29506694 Romanian_Oltenia
    4.31056841 Romanian_Banat
    4.32854479 Romanian_Transylvania
    4.46654229 Moldovan_South
    4.48558803 Romanian
    4.74247826 Serb_Herzegovina
    4.81380307 Romanian_South-Moldavia
    4.88573434 Romanian_Dobruja
    5.00126984 Romanian_Wallachia
    5.10901165 Romanian_Crișana
    5.21332907 Serb_South
    5.21399079 Serb_Vojvodina
    5.24082055 Bulgarian_Southwestern
    5.27768889 Romanian_Muntenia
    5.32321332 Bulgarian_Northwestern
    5.58524843 Serb
    5.65637693 Serb_West
    5.98528195 Bulgarian
    6.28481503 Serb_Central
    6.52180956 Romanian_Maramureș
    6.52197823 Bulgarian_Northcentral
    6.59113040 Serb_Croatia

  10. #650
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    From Soroca (1/2) and Ungheni (1/2) counties




    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    21.47 30.26 19.51 6.48 14.94 1.78 1.00 1.63 1.33 0.48 0.78 0.33 0

    Distance to: 1/2Pitusca_1/2OchiulAlb
    5.21383736 Serb_Herzegovina
    5.22061299 Serb
    5.34161960 Serb_Vojvodina
    5.41138614 Serb_Central
    5.58165746 Serb_Republika_Srpska
    5.64958406 Moldovan
    5.65793248 Serb_Croatia
    5.68969243 Serb_West
    5.73654949 Serb_South
    5.98914017 Moldovan_Central
    6.09488310 Moldovan_South
    6.26360120 Romanian_North-Moldavia
    6.41667359 Montenegrin
    6.55316717 Romanian_Crișana
    6.57152189 Romanian_South-Moldavia
    6.62795594 Romanian_Maramureș
    6.74792561 Romanian_Transylvania
    6.90337599 Croat_South
    6.94707852 Romanian
    7.31315253 Bulgarian_Northwestern
    7.33483469 Serb_Montenegro
    7.34306476 Romanian_Banat
    7.89568236 Romanian_Oltenia
    7.96280729 Moldovan_North
    7.96927851 Romanian_Dobruja

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