Close cousins of mixed Cubans GEDMATCH KITS

[BirdMan]

Well judging by the photos and films I have seen of Cuba and from the discussions I have had with friends and relatives who've visited it, that is utter bullshit.

People often say this, but it really seems impossible to me that Cuba does not have a large white population.

In 1820, Cuba had a white population of 311,051 (44.2% of the island's population). Many of those people were probably mixed, but if the Spanish government considered them "white" they were likely pred. Euro.
1820, New Zealand of white population of 0.

From 1820-1932 Cuba received 1,394,000 European immigrants.
From 1820-1932 New Zealand received 588,000 European immigrants.

I assume you accept that New Zealand has a white population of over 3,000,000.
Why is it impossible to believe Cuba has a white population of over 5,500,000 (the number needed for whites to be >50% of the Cuban population)?

Cuba received more than twice the number of European immigrants and already had a sizable pred. Euro population. Many white Cubans left, but New Zealand also has a very large diaspora so it doesn't really affect the comparison. A similar comparison can be made with South Africa, which also has a large and primarily white diaspora.

I'm not saying your friends/family are lying or anything like that, I'm just saying that it seems unlikely to me that the census and genetic studies are so wrong when it seems like the historical evidence also supports the conclusion that Cuba still has a large white population.

[Tooting Carmen]

People often say this, but it really seems impossible to me that Cuba does not have a large white population.

In 1820, Cuba had a white population of 311,051 (44.2% of the island's population). Many of those people were probably mixed, but if the Spanish government considered them "white" they were likely pred. Euro.
1820, New Zealand of white population of 0.

From 1820-1932 Cuba received 1,394,000 European immigrants.
From 1820-1932 New Zealand received 588,000 European immigrants.

I assume you accept that New Zealand has a white population of over 3,000,000.
Why is it impossible to believe Cuba has a white population of over 5,500,000 (the number needed for whites to be >50% of the Cuban population)?

Cuba received more than twice the number of European immigrants and already had a sizable pred. Euro population. Many white Cubans left, but New Zealand also has a very large diaspora so it doesn't really affect the comparison. A similar comparison can be made with South Africa, which also has a large and primarily white diaspora.

I'm not saying your friends/family are lying or anything like that, I'm just saying that it seems unlikely to me that the census and genetic studies are so wrong when it seems like the historical evidence also supports the conclusion that Cuba still has a large white population.

But surely there is a distinction between later Spanish-descended Cubans and colonial Cubans, the latter being mostly mixed-race to varying degrees?

[Tooting Carmen]

Residents of Little Havana in Miami. Many if not most look ambiguous/mixed-race: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...e-Havana-Miami

[BirdMan]

But surely there is a distinction between later Spanish-descended Cubans and colonial Cubans, the latter being mostly mixed-race to varying degrees?

Of course - but the modern Cuban population descends from both colonial cubans and the descendants of late 19th century immigrants, just as in any New World society that experienced massive immigration.

My point is that if New Zealand and South Africa have large white populations, it seems very likely that Cuba does as well because they received more European immigration and already had large (if not "pure") white population.

[Tooting Carmen]

Of course - but the modern Cuban population descends from both colonial cubans and the descendants of late 19th century immigrants, just as in any New World society that experienced massive immigration.

My point is that if New Zealand and South Africa have large white populations, it seems very likely that Cuba does as well because they received more European immigration and already had large (if not "pure") white population.

Well South African Whites constitute no more than 15-20% of the population. Even NZ is no more than 75% White, given its large Maori population and more recent Asian and Pacific Islander immigrants.

[BirdMan]

Residents of Little Havana in Miami. Many if not most look ambiguous/mixed-race: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...e-Havana-Miami

I used to live in Miami and Little Havana hasn't been majority Cuban for a long time, even though it's still the spiritual home of the Cuban community.

I'm not sure about the exact demographics (I get the impression that there are many Dominicans and Central Americans now).

Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-miami/477204/

A more purely Cuban and heavily working class neighborhood would be Hialeah. I lived in an upper middle class area and the Cubans I interacted with were uniformly white, thiugh of course not representative.

[BirdMan]

Well South African Whites constitute no more than 15-20% of the population. Even NZ is no more than 75% White, given its large Maori population and more recent Asian and Pacific Islander immigrants.

Right, but South Africa has 6,000,000 whites and New Zealand has 3,000,000 whites. Why couldn't there also be 6,000,000 whites in Cuba (enough to be a clear majority in the country), given that Cuba received more than twice as many 19th century immigrants as South Africa and had a larger starting "white" population?

[Tooting Carmen]

I used to live in Miami and Little Havana hasn't been majority Cuban for a long time, even though it's still the spiritual home of the Cuban community.

I'm not sure about the exact demographics (I get the impression that there are many Dominicans and Central Americans now).

Here's an interesting article about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-miami/477204/

A more purely Cuban and heavily working class neighborhood would be Hialeah. I lived in an upper middle class area and the Cubans I interacted with were uniformly white, thiugh of course not representative.

Coral Gables? Coconut Grove? Key Biscayne?

[Tooting Carmen]

Right, but South Africa has 6,000,000 whites and New Zealand has 3,000,000 whites. Why couldn't there also be 6,000,000 whites in Cuba (enough to be a clear majority in the country), given that Cuba received more than twice as many 19th century immigrants as South Africa and had a larger starting "white" population?

I don't doubt that Cuba was and still is whiter than South Africa. The key difference is that, for reasons that don't even really need explaining, South African Whites generally have little if any non-white admixture, whereas plenty of White Cubans do and more than a few times it shows.

[BirdMan]

Coral Gables? Coconut Grove? Key Biscayne?

Coral Gables near the border with Coconut Grove. Aside from some people from Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil, the Cubans were almost always the "whitest" Latin Americans I interacted with (including people from the working classes like waiters and uber drivers).