Islam was historically more tolerant of homosexuality than was Christianity

[Östsvensk]

Islam was created and developed in opposition with both Judaism and Christianity, while Christianity was born into Judaism, at a time when sectarian Judaism prevailed (Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes...). That ancient Judaism was the fertile ground of both Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism, the prevalent form of Judaism nowadays, which is inherited from the Pharisees.

Islam is essentially Phariseeism translated into Arabic. Jesus was later added as a prophet during Muhammad's time in Medina. As far as I know, there are no Meccan verses in the Qur'an that make any reference to Jesus and Christians, only to Jews and Judaism. The Qur'an does not have a single quotation from the New Testament, but quotes some from the Torah and Tanakh.

So Judaism served as the core of Islam's foundation, not Christianity:

JUDAISM AND ISLAM by Abraham Geiger

There is a book that compares the Islamic Jesus with the Christian Jesus from a Christian perspective. It's named "The Moslem Christ" and written by Samuel S. Zwemer:

The Moslem Christ

[Laly]

Islam is essentially Phariseeism translated into Arabic. Jesus was later added as a prophet during Muhammad's time in Medina. As far as I know, there are no Meccan verses in the Qur'an that make any reference to Jesus and Christians, only to Jews and Judaism. The Qur'an does not have a single quotation from the New Testament, but quotes some from the Torah and Tanakh.

So Judaism served as the core of Islam's foundation, not Christianity:

JUDAISM AND ISLAM by Abraham Geiger

There is a book that compares the Islamic Jesus with the Christian Jesus from a Christian perspective. It's named "The Moslem Christ" and written by Samuel S. Zwemer:

The Moslem Christ

I don’t find it credible to attribute the paternity of Islam to Phariseeism, which is followed on by Rabbinic Judaism and the ideology in which Islam developed is opposed to Phariseeism/Rabbinic Judaism. Islam seems to have its roots in a movement that could be called “Judeo-Nazarene”, constituted by people culturally influenced by both Judaism and Christianity. And there are references to the Nazarenes (Nasara) in the Quran, a group towards which it has a lot of sympathy (at least in the beginning, as what I believe, based on the recent trends in the historiography, is that later on the Arabs indoctrinated in the Judeo-Nazarene faith were turned against the latest; I could present more arguments on that…). The Church Father Hieronimus, for example, qualified that community of “neither Jewish nor Christian” (letter 112, 13).

And well, there are references to Christianity and to Jesus, the New Testament, in Meccan verses, for example through the reference to Mary, like in the surah 19, the surah Mariam/Mary. And in that surah, the Quran defends Mary against the calumnies of Phariseeism/Rabbinic Judaism. Actually, the references to Christianity in the Quran come heavily from the Christian apocryphal literature. It’s part of the Quranic core.

[Östsvensk]

I don’t find it credible to attribute the paternity of Islam to Phariseeism, which is followed on by Rabbinic Judaism and the ideology in which Islam developed is opposed to Phariseeism/Rabbinic Judaism. Islam seems to have its roots in a movement that could be called “Judeo-Nazarene”, constituted by people culturally influenced by both Judaism and Christianity. And there are references to the Nazarenes (Nasara) in the Quran, a group towards which it has a lot of sympathy (at least in the beginning, as what I believe, based on the recent trends in the historiography, is that later on the Arabs indoctrinated in the Judeo-Nazarene faith were turned against the latest; I could present more arguments on that…). The Church Father Hieronimus, for example, qualified that community of “neither Jewish nor Christian” (letter 112, 13).

And well, there are references to Christianity and to Jesus, the New Testament, in Meccan verses, for example through the reference to Mary, like in the surah 19, the surah Mariam/Mary. And in that surah, the Quran defends Mary against the calumnies of Phariseeism/Rabbinic Judaism. Actually, the references to Christianity in the Quran come heavily from the Christian apocryphal literature. It’s part of the Quranic core.

Yes, the Qur'an does make a lot of references to apocryphal material. I know that the New Testament is referenced and called the Injeel. The only quotation that the Qur'an makes from the New Testament is calling Jesus the Word of God, I believe.

Although, as we have seen, there are many references to Jesus Christ in the Koran, it is remarkable that there is not a single direct quotation from the New Testament in the whole book, and only one from the Old Testament (Surah 21:105).[1] There are passages in the Koran, however, which indicate that Mohammed either directly or indirectly borrowed Scripture thought if not language. Among them are the following:—

In Surah 29:60 we read, "How many a beast cannot carry its own provisions. God provides for it and for you. He both hears and knows." We may compare this with the teaching of Jesus Christ on God's care for the birds (Matthew 6:26).

In Surah 18:24 the reference is clearer: "Never say of anything, 'Verily, I am going to do that tomorrow,' except (ye say) 'if God please.'" Compare Jas. 4:13-15: "Ye ought to say, 'If the Lord will, we shall both live and do this or that.'"

In Surah 42:19 there is a reference to the law of sowing and reaping like that in Gal. 6:7. "He who wishes for the tilth of the next world, we will increase for him the tilth; and he who desires the tilth of this world, we will give him thereof, but in the next world he shall have no portion."

The passage that approaches nearest to a quotation, however, is found in Surah 7:39: "Verily, those who say our signs are lies and are too big with pride for them, for these the doors of heaven shall not be opened, and they shall not enter into paradise until a camel shall pass into a needle's eye" (Matt. 19:24).- The Moslem Christ, S.Zwemer, ch. VI: HIS TEACHING

Muslims also believe that the Injeel is a book that was revealed to Jesus and later lost. It is not the Bible that is used by Christians today, which they argue is a corrupted and man-made document.

I am slow today and I got it wrong about the Meccan verses. Muhammad did have knowledge about Christianity before Mecca. Still, the majority of the references to Christianity are in the Medina period, I believe.

[Laly]

Yes, the Qur'an does make a lot of references to apocryphal material. I know that the New Testament is referenced and called the Injeel. The only quotation that the Qur'an makes from the New Testament is calling Jesus the Word of God, I believe.

Although, as we have seen, there are many references to Jesus Christ in the Koran, it is remarkable that there is not a single direct quotation from the New Testament in the whole book, and only one from the Old Testament (Surah 21:105).[1] There are passages in the Koran, however, which indicate that Mohammed either directly or indirectly borrowed Scripture thought if not language. Among them are the following:—

In Surah 29:60 we read, "How many a beast cannot carry its own provisions. God provides for it and for you. He both hears and knows." We may compare this with the teaching of Jesus Christ on God's care for the birds (Matthew 6:26).

In Surah 18:24 the reference is clearer: "Never say of anything, 'Verily, I am going to do that tomorrow,' except (ye say) 'if God please.'" Compare Jas. 4:13-15: "Ye ought to say, 'If the Lord will, we shall both live and do this or that.'"

In Surah 42:19 there is a reference to the law of sowing and reaping like that in Gal. 6:7. "He who wishes for the tilth of the next world, we will increase for him the tilth; and he who desires the tilth of this world, we will give him thereof, but in the next world he shall have no portion."

The passage that approaches nearest to a quotation, however, is found in Surah 7:39: "Verily, those who say our signs are lies and are too big with pride for them, for these the doors of heaven shall not be opened, and they shall not enter into paradise until a camel shall pass into a needle's eye" (Matt. 19:24).- The Moslem Christ, S.Zwemer, ch. VI: HIS TEACHING

Muslims also believe that the Injeel is a book that was revealed to Jesus and later lost. It is not the Bible that is used by Christians today, which they argue is a corrupted and man-made document.

I am slow today and I got it wrong about the Meccan verses. Muhammad did have knowledge about Christianity before Mecca. Still, the majority of the references to Christianity are in the Medina period, I believe.

Dear Östsvensk,

I’m sorry, but I fail to understand what your point is.

You first said “The Qur'an does not have a single quotation from the New Testament, but quotes some from the Torah and Tanakh.” and I don’t get how from that, you come to the conclusion that “Judaism served as the core of Islam's foundation, not Christianity”, especially as in your most recent post, you somehow contradict yourself and write that there is “only one direct quotation from the Old Testament”.

I don’t see how it's “remarkable” that there are no real direct quotations from both the Old and the New Testament.

Seriously, what does it change if it’s not verbatim?

[Östsvensk]

Dear Östsvensk,

I’m sorry, but I fail to understand what your point is.

You first said “The Qur'an does not have a single quotation from the New Testament, but quotes some from the Torah and Tanakh.” and I don’t get how from that, you come to the conclusion that “Judaism served as the core of Islam's foundation, not Christianity”, especially as in your most recent post, you somehow contradict yourself and write that there is “only one direct quotation from the Old Testament”.

I don’t see how it's “remarkable” that there are no real direct quotations from both the Old and the New Testament.

Seriously, what does it change if it’s not verbatim?

B. JEWISH INFLUENCES IN THE QUR'AN.

1. Muhammad's Debt to Judaism.

We have already seen that many of the narratives in the Qur'an and Hadith have extra-Islamic origins. In this section we shall briefly examine the substantial presence of Jewish historical and mythical material in the Qur'an. Indeed there is so much of it that whole books have been written on the subject and it is striking to find how heavily Muhammad relied on his Jewish contacts for the passages and teachings he ultimately set forth as part of the divine revelation.

So much, indeed, was Muhammad indebted to the Jews for a great portion of his teaching on this and other subjects that the Qur'an has been described as a compendium of Talmudic Judaism. (Blair, The Sources of Islam, p. 55).

One finds many of the Old Testament stories of the prophets reproduced in the Qur'an, sometimes in a precis form where the Qur'anic record is a faithful, though often vague, summary of the original Biblical narrative (e.g. the story of Jonah in Surah 37.139-148). On other occasions the Qur'anic narratives contain elements of Biblical truths confounded with folklore and fables extracted from the Talmud and in some cases (such as the story of Abraham and the idols which we shall presently consider) the sources are entirely Midrashic/Haggadic and are accordingly purely fictitious.

This accounts for the seeming discrepancies between the stories of :he Bible and the Koranic version of the same narratives. However, in relating the Koranic version of the biblical story to the Aggadic source as indicated in our study, the discrepancies almost entirely disappear. For, astonishingly enough, the biblical narratives are reproduced in the Koran in true Aggadic cloak. (Katsh, Judaism in Islam, p. xvii).
Virtually all the Qur'anic records which are reliant on Jewish sources can be traced either to the Bible or to Talmudic records such as the Midrash, Mishnah, etc. There are, however, a few occasions where one finds narratives obviously reliant on Jewish historical sources which are today unknown to us (for example the story of the sacrifice of Abraham's son which has elements not found in the preserved works of Judaism as it is recorded in Surah 37.100-113). It seems indeed that Muhammad was reliant on Jewish materials but we must ask how he came by them in the course of his mission.

The Collection and Sources of the Qu'ran

[Kamal900]

Isa is a misuse of language due to the Islamic domination. The Christian Arabs know very well their God is Yasu (يَسُوعَ).

3essa is a recent name, yes, but it refers to the same being. Jews call their god, Yaweh, in the past, and today they call him hashem which is cognate to the Arabic word for supreme.

[PaleoEuropean]

Grouping Christians and Muslims into single entities for one is very dubious, Islam is just as diverse as Christianity in terms of sects. Homosexuality in Islam revolves around almost exclusively Turkic peoples. All the drawings/engravings of homosexuality are all Turkish and most revolve around Sufism which the main schools of Islam generally disavow as Bid'ah which means innovation and thus haram. Muslims unlike us Christians follow practiced and arbitrated law like the Jews and in most schools of Islam sodomy is a sin regardless of whether or not its with a woman or not as Christianity and Judaism does.

In the case of Afghanistan the rampant homosexual pedophilia is practiced mostly by Turkic peoples and Northern Alliance Pashtuns. The Taliban may look faggy but they wear eyeliner as means of tradition that supposedly goes back to Muhammad, from which you can find many movies depicting Arabs wearing eyeliner, I was told by an Arab that it's for eye protection. The Taliban does not practice homosexuality, however since they are not a singular entity themselves anymore there may be warlords who do practice it as Afghan warlords are known to be debauch tyrants with insatiable appetites for deviancy.

I am not saying this to defend Islam, but most western people go off the usual talking points and arguments about Islam without actually reading for themselves. I have read many religious texts and those pertaining to religious law and have a unique insight.

Christianity is not without it's deviancy either, for instance Universalist/Methodists Christians can have Gay/Lesbian preachers, the Catholic Church has been practicing pedophilia since essentially the beginning and is a massive epidemic today. Power breeds corruption of character, Islam, Christianity and Judaism at their cores do not promote, allow or even tolerate homosexuality. At their core all these religions follow the 10 commandments and all the mainstream branches forbid premarital sexual activity aside from males being able to have sex with their slaves or concubines.

[PaleoEuropean]

3essa is a recent name, yes, but it refers to the same being. Jews call their god, Yaweh, in the past, and today they call him hashem which is cognate to the Arabic word for supreme.

All the names for God should be respected, when people insult Allah even meaning it to be a different entity they are insulting a name of God, Allah comes from the Aramaic Eloha/Elohim. Irks me to see people not put forth the effort to learn this kind of stuff.

[Vojnik]

All the names for God should be respected, when people insult Allah even meaning it to be a different entity they are insulting a name of God, Allah comes from the Aramaic Eloha/Elohim. Irks me to see people not put forth the effort to learn this kind of stuff.

If your fathers name is Jeff, does that mean all men named Jeff are your father? Ofcourse not. Your father Jeff is your only biological father. All other Jeff's claiming to be your Father just because they bare the same name, are all fake.

You see my analogy here? Just because the Muslims call their God Allah, and Hindu's believe in Shiva, it doesn't mean they are the same as the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. The Biblical God.

[Kamal900]

If your fathers name is Jeff, does that mean all men named Jeff are your father? Ofcourse not. Your father Jeff is your only biological father. All other Jeff's claiming to be your Father just because they bare the same name, are all fake.

You see my analogy here? Just because the Muslims call their God Allah, and Hindu's believe in Shiva, it doesn't mean they are the same as the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. The Biblical God.

They're the same god, and the word, Allah, isn't a name for some unknown deity but rather was a title for the god, 7ubal, before the title was given to the Abrahamic god which was called with many different names back then like Yaweh, Jehovah, Hashem, and so on. Lol, PaleoEuropean knows a lot about the history of the Semitic peoples than you do.

Muslims do believe in Abraham, David, Jesus and all of the bible figures in the Bible and the Torah, just the stories behind these figures are altered.