Main types and Rank these some Portuguese people

[Wolfdog]

Mostly Gracile Meds, Berids and AtlantoMeds.
Also few Baskids and Atlantids are presented too

Comparing to Spaniards I see 2 main differences :
1. Portuguese people have more generic panMediterranean look
2. Portuguese people somewhat lack Atlantid features

Overall iMO they pass equally well in most of countriess you have ranked...

Except Denmark, Poland and Georgia

[aherne]

You are pretty far off the mark when it comes to genetics:

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 2.6244% / 0.02624356

43.6 European_neolithic_farmer
42.8 Steppe_Indo-European
8.2 WHG
5.4 ancient_North_African

It only proves that genetic tests are useless! Portuguese being 42.8% Steppe "Indo-European"? This is fucking absurd! Historically (and anthropologically) it CANNOT be more than 10%... Croats, Hungarians MAYBE, but Portuguese?

[Damião de Góis]

2. Portuguese people somewhat lack Atlantid features

What types do you see here, in your romani opinion?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...e-bullfighters

It only proves that genetic tests are useless! Portuguese being 42.8% Steppe "Indo-European"? This is fucking absurd! Historically (and anthropologically) it CANNOT be more than 10%... Croats, Hungarians MAYBE, but Portuguese?

It's around 30% steppe.

[aherne]

It's around 30% steppe.

Do you actually believe that? This genetic bullshit is often taken as godsend here and all other evidence, history included, is often put aside. Every study claims a different thing, which proves this is even less of a science than racial anthropology (which is inexact to begin with)! True science always produces same results in consecutive experiments: genetic makeup may be consistent BUT its interpretation is not.

What is the evidence:

- historical evidence is that Portugal was only partly Aryanized during Bronze Age and it had a dense indigenous population where invaders couldn't have possibly make much impact (same for Greece, for example)
- racial anthropology confirms above, showing Portuguese people to be heavily indigenous in origin with only maybe 5% showing any "invader" input. Of course, some Portuguese look straight Keltic but how many are they compared to those that look Med/Alpine/Dinaric?

Another thing to take into account is genetic drift: this is evident when one compares genetic makeup in a region today to that of 2000 years ago or more where migrations can be excluded. This explains why Western Europeans and people of Chad share R1b haplogroup, even though their shared ancestors are AT LEAST 40.000 years apart

[Damião de Góis]

Do you actually believe that? This genetic bullshit is often taken as godsend here and all other evidence, history included, is often put aside. Every study claims a different thing, which proves this is even less of a science than racial anthropology (which is inexact to begin with)! True science always produces same results in consecutive experiments: genetic makeup may be consistent BUT its interpretation is not.

What is the evidence:

- historical evidence is that Portugal was only partly Aryanized during Bronze Age and it had a dense indigenous population where invaders couldn't have possibly make much impact (same for Greece, for example)
- racial anthropology confirms above, showing Portuguese people to be heavily indigenous in origin with only maybe 5% showing any "invader" input. Of course, some Portuguese look straight Keltic but how many are they compared to those that look Med/Alpine/Dinaric?

Yes, until i'm shown otherwise what i see in every run is that the portuguese are around 53% EEF, around 30% Steppe, around 10% WHG and around 5% north african. The average of every portuguese sample on G25 has that result, so i believe it should be close to what it is:



This doesn't mean much to me other than it shows us where we plot, which is on the area everyone already knows:



Concerning History, your remark that we were only partly "aryanized" (interesting word) during the Bronze Age tells me i would waste my time discussing History with you.

About racial anthropology, the real pseudo-science in my view, i'll just say that these two portuguese MEPs would have more or less the same genetic results and both would plot in the area shown above:





What is causing their differences are not these genetic results or the amount of steppe, but differences in phenotype and pigmentation related SNPs.

Another thing to take into account is genetic drift: this is evident when one compares genetic makeup in a region today to that of 2000 years ago or more where migrations can be excluded. This explains why Western Europeans and people of Chad share R1b haplogroup, even though their shared ancestors are AT LEAST 40.000 years apart

No we don't share any R1b with Chad. Tell me how much R1b-DF27 there is in Chad, there are obviously different subclades.

[Gota_type_]

My impression in regards to our neighbours the portuguese is:

-They have less germanic/nordic individuals. Much less I would say.
-They look more homogeneous than us.
-They also have less light types.
-Obviously they also have much less baskid or baskid-related types (which are not only in the basque región but in Cantabria, NE Castilla, Aragon, and after Reconquista in many other places).

Obvious generalization but this is my experience. The quality of the pictures is not the best but I agree with CV that the people in this picture would not pass as typical in Spain, meaning that I would not say they are from Spain:



If the color of the image is not faked, there are too many olive looking people in that picture. In Spain it is rare to find so many olive looking people in a group (maybe 1-2 out of 10 are olive looking, the rest panEuropean in skin tone). Also the expression looks unfamiliar to us.

[Damião de Góis]

My impression in regards to our neighbours the portuguese is:

-They have less germanic/nordic individuals. Much less I would say.

I don't know what you mean by that. If you mean people like the woman i posted above, i looked at the spanish MEPs, which has 59 people (against our 21) and i couldn't find any that looked like her. I expected to find 2 or 3 or more going by our remark.

-They look more homogeneous than us.

Even considering our smaller size and smaller population, i'm really not sure about that. Our complex history has produced very different looking individuals and i've been surprised more than once at how people can look like here.

-They also have less light types.

I have no difficulty in finding examples from any part of society, region or activity. Either way, considering you are 46M and we are 10M so this would be like comparing Portugal with spanish regions. Only Andalusia and Catalonia have similar populations, all others would be at a disadvantage with this sort of comparison.

-Obviously they also have much less baskid or baskid-related types (which are not only in the basque región but in Cantabria, NE Castilla, Aragon, and after Reconquista in many other places).

That is correct in my opinion. Raul, Abascal or Emery types would be difficult to find here. I would even say our dinaroid examples don't look like spanish baskids like this musician:

Obvious generalization but this is my experience. The quality of the pictures is not the best but I agree with CV that the people in this picture would not pass as typical in Spain, meaning that I would not say they are from Spain:



If the color of the image is not faked, there are too many olive looking people in that picture. In Spain it is rare to find so many olive looking people in a group (maybe 1-2 out of 10 are olive looking, the rest panEuropean in skin tone). Also the expression looks unfamiliar to us.

I looked at demonstration pictures with shitty light from Galicia and found this one, you can count the "olive looking people" if you like:



http://plataformabarbanza.blogspot.c...?view=flipcard

[Gota_type_]

That is my impresión, I have traveled quite a lot in northern Portugal and I know some portuguese people, although I don´t have a direct daily connection since I am from northern Galicia, an isolated área. Based in what I have seen, you have less germanic/nordic/very light types. Not that I am saying that we have many, but in every school we were 3-5 out of 40 who were blonde and blue eyed, in many different schools I have seen this. I have rarely seen a blond-blue eyed Portuguese in my travels there. And even less common are those who also have a northern European appareance (like the portuguese bullfighter that looks British, but they are quite rare there and not so rare here). 60 politicians can´t be an example of what we see in every daylife, for years.

The core of the Portuguese or Spanish people (60-70%) are totally interchangeable, but I continue to think that you have a relatively higher amount of olive looking people (despite the pictures with bad light and "sad faces" that now I agree that they can be also found here, it was a first impression and it probably has more to do with the picture lighting) and a relatively lower amount of light types.

We both have "extreme" dark looking types (for me they are non-whites) like Busquets, Raul, Abelardo and others. I don´t think that it is more than a 5-6% of the population. You might even have a bit more (like a 10% of natives that are non-White), which makes Little or no difference. There are some studies that show that SOME portuguese have a higher amount of Subsaharan DNA (probably due to slaves taken to mainland Portugal, which in Spain was almost never done: bringing black slaves here). I also have seen a relatively higher amount of portuguese 23andme DNA tests which they score a 1-3% subsaharan. Normally I have not seen this in 23andme Spanish results. Sometimes a 0.6% northafrican in some individual but not a subsaharan that is like 1-2-3%). Maybe they are just a tiny minority but I did not expect to see portuguese scoring such amounts of subsaharan. I guess they are a tiny minority.

By the way, I don´t see how people call Raul baskid?? His nose is not baskid and he looks levantine-saudi (depigmented). To me he is a non-White. Not saying that he is black, but too dark, too levantine looking. And Abascal despite being partially basque (he is like 50% basque 50% galician) does not look basque. His nose look jewish, not basque. He does not represent the average basque by far. And that musician looks italian, not Spanish basque, so I agree.

I don't know what you mean by that. If you mean people like the woman i posted above, i looked at the spanish MEPs, which has 59 people (against our 21) and i couldn't find any that looked like her. I expected to find 2 or 3 or more going by our remark.



Even considering our smaller size and smaller population, i'm really not sure about that. Our complex history has produced very different looking individuals and i've been surprised more than once at how people can look like here.



I have no difficulty in finding examples from any part of society, region or activity. Either way, considering you are 46M and we are 10M so this would be like comparing Portugal with spanish regions. Only Andalusia and Catalonia have similar populations, all others would be at a disadvantage with this sort of comparison.



That is correct in my opinion. Raul, Abascal or Emery types would be difficult to find here. I would even say our dinaroid examples don't look like spanish baskids like this musician:





I looked at demonstration pictures with shitty light from Galicia and found this one, you can count the "olive looking people" if you like:



http://plataformabarbanza.blogspot.c...?view=flipcard

[Luso]

Another thing to take into account is genetic drift: this is evident when one compares genetic makeup in a region today to that of 2000 years ago or more where migrations can be excluded. This explains why Western Europeans and people of Chad share R1b haplogroup, even though their shared ancestors are AT LEAST 40.000 years apart

It is called genetic backflow from the Near-east, more specifically Eurasian backflow. You are naive to think R1b-V88 or any other r1b clades are a "native" component of Africa.

Understanding human genetic diversity in Africa is important for interpreting the evolution of all humans, yet vast regions in Africa, such as Chad, remain genetically poorly investigated. Here, we use genotype data from 480 samples from Chad, the Near East, and southern Europe, as well as whole-genome sequencing from 19 of them, to show that many populations today derive their genomes from ancient African-Eurasian admixtures. We found evidence of early Eurasian backflow to Africa in people speaking the unclassified isolate Laal language in southern Chad and estimate from linkage-disequilibrium decay that this occurred 4,750–7,200 years ago. It brought to Africa a Y chromosome lineage (R1b-V88) whose closest relatives are widespread in present-day Eurasia; we estimate from sequence data that the Chad R1b-V88 Y chromosomes coalesced 5,700–7,300 years ago. This migration could thus have originated among Near Eastern farmers during the African Humid Period. We also found that the previously documented Eurasian backflow into Africa, which occurred ∼3,000 years ago and was thought to be mostly limited to East Africa, had a more westward impact affecting populations in northern Chad, such as the Toubou, who have 20%–30% Eurasian ancestry today. We observed a decline in heterozygosity in admixed Africans and found that the Eurasian admixture can bias inferences on their coalescent history and confound genetic signals from adaptation and archaic introgression.

Study:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...02929716304487

[Jana]

It only proves that genetic tests are useless! Portuguese being 42.8% Steppe "Indo-European"? This is fucking absurd! Historically (and anthropologically) it CANNOT be more than 10%... Croats, Hungarians MAYBE, but Portuguese?

What types do you see here, in your romani opinion?

[url]https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323818-Portuguese-bullfighters[/url

It's around 30% steppe.

It is more, because Yamnaya is not the source of steppe in vast majority of Europeans.
I used Sredny Stog II as steppe sample which is far better PIE proxy than Yamnaya.