Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31

Thread: Do animals have an immortal and immaterial soul?

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Laly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Youkali
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Quintessential Western Euro
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese, Walloon, Flemish, Dutch, German, Luxembourgish, English
    Country
    European Union
    Politics
    Lazy housewife
    Hero
    Oblomov
    Religion
    oblomovchtchina
    Gender
    Posts
    3,473
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,928
    Given: 4,930

    2 Not allowed!

    Default Do animals have an immortal and immaterial soul?

    I am obsessed with that question, so please help answering and justify your answers.

    And what about plants?

  2. #2
    Galantuomo
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Tannhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    In the capital of an empire that never existed.
    Ethnicity
    Noble'oid Gaucho
    Country
    Argentina
    Region
    Campania
    Y-DNA
    Merovingian
    Politics
    Le Droit Divin des Rois.
    Hero
    renaissence12
    Religion
    In God We Trust
    Relationship Status
    Civil Partnership
    Gender
    Posts
    2,196
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,082
    Given: 3,014

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Only cetaceans, elephants, bonobos and a couple of Homo Sapiens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Laly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Youkali
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Quintessential Western Euro
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese, Walloon, Flemish, Dutch, German, Luxembourgish, English
    Country
    European Union
    Politics
    Lazy housewife
    Hero
    Oblomov
    Religion
    oblomovchtchina
    Gender
    Posts
    3,473
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,928
    Given: 4,930

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
    Only cetaceans, elephants, bonobos and a couple of Homo Sapiens.
    But this is a serious question.

  4. #4
    Hatchling
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Mingle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    America
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Central European
    Ethnicity
    Pashtun
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    R1a>Z93>FT296004
    mtDNA
    U2c1
    Gender
    Posts
    10,502
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,880
    Given: 7,415

    3 Not allowed!

    Default

    I don't really believe souls exist, so I'd say no. But if humans have a soul, then animals should also have one.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Marmara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Last Online
    03-10-2024 @ 01:24 AM
    Location
    Istanbul
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Country
    Turkey
    Region
    Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality
    Gender
    Posts
    12,566
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 8,898
    Given: 2,957

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Souls don't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    Dark skin is sign of evilness, every dark skinned country is agressive, full with criminality, violented peoples, most crimes were committed by dark skinned peoples. Many of them are follower of Islam (death cult) to spread the voice of Satan who tainted them that's why their skin is dark as their souls. We whites are descedants of angels (thats why our skin is light), we created the human rights, we ended slavery, we created the modern medical science to save lifes etc etc. Thats why the dark skinned peoples are so jealous for us and they want to destroy everything what the angles created.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Laly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Youkali
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Quintessential Western Euro
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese, Walloon, Flemish, Dutch, German, Luxembourgish, English
    Country
    European Union
    Politics
    Lazy housewife
    Hero
    Oblomov
    Religion
    oblomovchtchina
    Gender
    Posts
    3,473
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,928
    Given: 4,930

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    I don't really believe souls exist, so I'd say no. But if humans have a soul, then animals should also have one.
    But the answers must be justified in a Christian perspective.

  7. #7
    Galantuomo
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Tannhauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    In the capital of an empire that never existed.
    Ethnicity
    Noble'oid Gaucho
    Country
    Argentina
    Region
    Campania
    Y-DNA
    Merovingian
    Politics
    Le Droit Divin des Rois.
    Hero
    renaissence12
    Religion
    In God We Trust
    Relationship Status
    Civil Partnership
    Gender
    Posts
    2,196
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,082
    Given: 3,014

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laly View Post
    But this is a serious question.
    Well tell us your point of you. Specially what a soul means to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Laly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Youkali
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Quintessential Western Euro
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese, Walloon, Flemish, Dutch, German, Luxembourgish, English
    Country
    European Union
    Politics
    Lazy housewife
    Hero
    Oblomov
    Religion
    oblomovchtchina
    Gender
    Posts
    3,473
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,928
    Given: 4,930

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
    Well tell us your point of you. Specially what a soul means to you.
    Ok, I'll try to develop the official Aristotelian views the Catholic Church holds on that topic tomorrow, and to compare that with the Orthodox views.

    Now I'll try to sleep without being too tormented by that question. Please pray that I sleep well.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Laly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Youkali
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Quintessential Western Euro
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese, Walloon, Flemish, Dutch, German, Luxembourgish, English
    Country
    European Union
    Politics
    Lazy housewife
    Hero
    Oblomov
    Religion
    oblomovchtchina
    Gender
    Posts
    3,473
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,928
    Given: 4,930

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    So I have tried to present the question a bit better, to summarise it. I wish it is not too nebulous.

    The community of all creatures is a concept that is more present in the Old Testament than in the New one. In fact, the New Testament was subjected to a huge Hellenistic influence. The references to the animals are rarer, a more important gap is established between humans and other creatures. The change in the mentality may be illustrated for example by the following: in Dt 25,4, God expresses a law in favour of the oxen (“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain”), which was always understood literally by the Jews of that time, but then, in the New Testament, it becomes inconceivable for Paul to believe that God is actually talking about the animals, that God actually cares about them (1 Co 9, 9-10: “For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10 Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.”).

    Furthermore, in the Catholic Church, the views on animals have been extremely influenced by the Thomistic Aristotelian synthesis. Christianity has always (except during the short Cartesian episode) considered animals have a soul (as according to the Old Testament, they have the “nephesh”, like humans), but a material one, attached to the body, so mortal, as dying with the body, supposedly because animals are not made “in the divine image” (although the new exegeses offer a broader range of possibilities to interpret the fact that “man was created in God’s image”). And this material and mortal soul the animals are said to have supposedly permits to reach a certain knowledge, but only through the senses, as they wouldn’t have an intellect, wouldn’t be able to reason. Only humans are said to have an immaterial and immortal soul (cf. agent intellect). Consequently, animals would not go to Heaven.

    But the Orthodox church, which was far less influenced by the scholastic thought, leaves the possibility open for animals to go to heaven, insisting more on a verse such as Rm 8,19, “For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.”, in which there is the idea that all the creation can benefit from the Salvation.

    Personally, I consider myself a Catholic, but I really have a concern with the Catholic views on that question. I think that the Catholic Church should definitely drop the Thomistic/Aristotelian views on that topic.

    What is your opinion? Would it be reasonable to interpret the Christian scriptures in a more animal-friendly way (including concerning the New Testament episode of the Gerasene/Gadarene porks, which is I think the only passage from the Bible that really troubles me).

    Anyway, this is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church currently says on animals: “2416 Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.”

  10. #10
    High on life and drunk on knowledge
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    PaleoEuropean's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last Online
    05-02-2022 @ 05:30 PM
    Location
    A trailer
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Ascended Nubian Pharaoh
    Ethnicity
    Canned Fried Chicken
    Ancestry
    Black and Bold
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    E1b1N1GA
    mtDNA
    Nubian
    Taxonomy
    Black Israelite
    Politics
    Ham Sandwich
    Hero
    Elvis
    Religion
    Ham Sandwich Gang
    Relationship Status
    Married to Cousin
    Age
    69
    Gender
    Posts
    17,325
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 21,067
    Given: 39,632

    4 Not allowed!

    Default

    Animals in my opinion have immortal souls, maybe even plants and bugs etc. God is all powerful, loving and merciful. He may have put us at the top of his earthly creations, but surely he loves all living things and has the power to give them eternal life.
    Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

    Even if this were hard--that is how it is ! Assuredly, however, by far the harder fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her. Distress, misfortune, and diseases are her answer.

    Kekgenes K13

    1 Swahili+ Jew + Kekistani + Trailerparkistan @ 6.9420

    M.T.A
    Celt + Frank (4.869)
    Viking Icelandic + Frank (5.463)
    Viking Icelandic + Celt (5.545)
    Celt + Saxon (5.789)
    Viking Danish + Celt (6.283)
    Celt (6.539)
    Frank (10.13)
    Viking Icelandic (10.34)
    Viking Danish (10.4)
    Saxon (10.79)

    kit 2
    Celt + Belgae (4.016)
    Viking Danish + Belgae (5.555)
    Belgae + Frank (5.797)
    Celt + Frank (6.031)
    Celt (6.297)
    Viking Danish + Celt (6.441)
    Belgae (8.662)
    Viking Danish (8.925)
    Frank (9.409)
    Saxon (10.83)

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-30-2022, 09:57 PM
  2. Do you believe that the soul is immortal? \Poll\
    By Iloko in forum Religion & Spirituality
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-03-2021, 01:19 PM
  3. Chopin’s Immortal Hands
    By Kazimiera in forum Arts & Culture
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-15-2019, 04:41 PM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-14-2019, 05:05 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-05-2018, 02:58 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •