Why Turkey is not Europe?

[mena]

finns and russians have alot of haplogroup n which is mongol so i consider turkey european for the most part. turkey is geographically part of europe period just as the uk which is an island is part of europe. and there are muslim majority countries in the balkans not only turkey

[renaissance12]

Why ? Because they don't speak a european Language.. because they are not Christians.. because anatolia has Always been considered Asia..because Turkish are close to central asia mongoloid like the Finns.. because there are almost no baroque and newclassical buildings like in every town in Europe ... because they had never played pianoforte and violino in the XVIII and XIX century...

[renaissance12]

finns and russians have alot of haplogroup n which is mongol so i consider turkey european for the most part. turkey is geographically part of europe period just as the uk which is an island is part of europe. and there are muslim majority countries in the balkans not only turkey

Mongol genetic can be found in Russia Scandinavia ( Finland) and Turkey... maybe in Hungary...

[mitalit]

do they consider themselves european?

[renaissance12]

do they consider themselves european?

Also scandinavians believed to have shaped european culture...

To me... Scandinavian culture ( 2 level inferior to turkish culture..) and Turkish culture are alien to EUROPE...
Please don't say that normans and bla bla... vikings bla bla.. Till XIX century vikings were unknown in Europe...

The normans we can talk about were 100% romanized..

[Parça do Neymar]

Phenotype, DNA and geography are just minor technicalities in this particular matter. it's mostly because of historical reasons. Turkey is seem as a foreign power with a distinct culture just like their predecessor state (Ottoman Empire) and has a lot of animosity with european countries like Greece even to this date.

Turkey is just like Kazakhstan, a transcontinental country with some land in Europe, but perceived as non-european. It's the polar opposite of Cyprus, a purely west asian country in terms of geography, but widely accepted as european because of its strong ties with Greece.

Well most of the european countries have been killing each other during centuries.

While true, Ottomans first crossed into Europe during a time where some of the modern european ethnocultural groups or the predecessors of some modern european states were already established or in the process of germination. Think about it, Icenis and Romans (both true europeans in our modern concept) weren't so different from Greeks or Serbs and Ottomans in terms of foreignness, but there's no substantial legacy (language, religion, etc) of the Iceni in the modern British people, can we say the same about the Byzantine Empire and Greece? Ottomans fought against people whose legacy lives on through people who share the language, customs, etc.

If Boudicca and Suetonius Paulinus (likely from Italy) were alive today, I doubt she would consider him to be her kin, but a British white nationalist would likely consider both of them to be "white". Boudicca was an Iceni, but she wouldn't be English, Welsh, Scottish, etc. Many of the modern people in the Balkans share the same national identity with people from hundreds of years ago, people who fought against the Ottomans.

[Parça do Neymar]

Mongoloid genetics maybe

As far as I'm aware the average ethnic Turkish isn't even 10%, I'm pretty sure you can find a few ethnic Russians with similar amounts of Eastern Eurasian DNA in the northern parts of their country and you can also find Turks who are 2~3% (or even less) depending on the region. Either way it doesn't show up that much in their phenotypes, both groups look West Eurasian.

It's not because of their (turkish) high score in the wogness scale either because the also wog Greek-Cypriots are strongly Levantine-shifted and wog Pontic Greeks are mostly indigenous to the southern coast of the Black Sea. No one deny the europeaness of (Greek-speaking) Cypriots and mainland Greeks welcomed their pontic counterparts in regions like Macedonia and Thrace after all the atrocities committed against them in their native lands by the Ottoman Empire.

[renaissance12]

If Boudicca and Suetonius Paulinus (likely from Italy) were alive today, I doubt she would consider him to be her kin, .

Let alone the opposite.

[Ryujin]

Turkey is part of Erasmus, which is a European exchange student programme. So it qualifies as one, not necessarily meaning it is 'fully European'.

Turkey is basically Eurasian. Genetically-speaking; it has a big amount of Balkanite, Yugoslav, Bosniak and some other East and South European components making about over 20 million which is larger than the population of a good chunk of EU states. Culturally; it depends on the region. The eastern part of Turkey is far from any European influence and more Mesopotamian. However; the Aegean, Mediterrenean and Marmara parts are more European-influenced. The Black Sea area is also more South Caucasia-influenced.

Turkey has also undergone a westernization period under Ataturk which curbed Islamic influence, abolishing Sharia law and such. Turkey is one of the few Muslim-majority states which does not have Islam as state religion.

I don't want Turkey to be involved in the MENA area. So politically-speaking; I believe Turkey should face towards the EU membership to maintain the modern western values. It is good for the welfare and salvation of our society. There's not really a genetical hassle in Turkey and the general racial pride concept which is seen in this forum except that of Turkic identity is really alien to this country no matter if someone is blonde or not. It might be because the Turkish people are heavily mixed, maybe one of the most in the world so no one can jump and say they are fully something.

It's more like culturally and sometimes politically many secularist Turks want to hold on to western secular values established by Ataturk, which keep this country from becoming like Afghanistan or Pakistan. Many fear that if Turkey keeps getting involved in the MENA affairs it will turn out to be one. People want to keep drinking alcohol, women want to keep wearing miniskirts, people want to go out and walk in the streets as couples, that's basically the main reason why many Turks want to face towards the West and Europe, not getting sanctioned by Sharia law. Before Ataturk; women were not allowed to go out without wearing veil in Ottoman times (except Balkan areas)

Honestly; I don't care if someone is blonde or classify themselves as European; I just don't care. If I did; I'd sympathize with Kosovans. I just want Turkey to be less influenced by Islamic stuff. That's why Turkey should align more with the West and less with the MENA.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Turkey is part of Erasmus, which is a European exchange student programme. So it qualifies as one, not necessarily meaning it is 'fully European'.

Turkey is basically Eurasian. Genetically-speaking; it has a big amount of Balkanite, Yugoslav, Bosniak and some other East and South European components making about over 20 million which is larger than the population of a good chunk of EU states. Culturally; it depends on the region. The eastern part of Turkey is far from any European influence and more Mesopotamian. However; the Aegean, Mediterrenean and Marmara parts are more European-influenced. The Black Sea area is also more South Caucasia-influenced.

Turkey has also undergone a westernization period under Ataturk which curbed Islamic influence, abolishing Sharia law and such. Turkey is one of the few Muslim-majority states which does not have Islam as state religion.

I don't want Turkey to be involved in the MENA area. So politically-speaking; I believe Turkey should face towards the EU membership to maintain the modern western values. It is good for the welfare and salvation of our society. There's not really a genetical hassle in Turkey and the general racial pride concept which is seen in this forum except that of Turkic identity is really alien to this country no matter if someone is blonde or not. It might be because the Turkish people are heavily mixed, maybe one of the most in the world so no one can jump and say they are fully something.

It's more like culturally and sometimes politically many secularist Turks want to hold on to western secular values established by Ataturk, which keep this country from becoming like Afghanistan or Pakistan. Many fear that if Turkey keeps getting involved in the MENA affairs it will turn out to be one. People want to keep drinking alcohol, women want to keep wearing miniskirts, people want to go out and walk in the streets as couples, that's basically the main reason why many Turks want to face towards the West and Europe, not getting sanctioned by Sharia law. Before Ataturk; women were not allowed to go out without wearing veil in Ottoman times (except Balkan areas)

Honestly; I don't care if someone is blonde or classify themselves as European; I just don't care. If I did; I'd sympathize with Kosovans. I just want Turkey to be less influenced by Islamic stuff. That's why Turkey should align more with the West and less with the MENA.

Modernized doesnt mean "culturally European". Western Turkey is the only part of Turkey which i have visited. It trully is "modernized" but not really more European than any other part of the levant

Being culturally European is what paul vallery defined: having a Greko-roman civilization instead of arabic, central asian/altaic persian etc which as components make up the civilization of Turkey, 2) being Christian and 3) having roman law. Among these criteria only number 3 is fulfilled

If Turks want to be modernized then thats good, and they can be politically part of Europe instead of Mena. But being modernized really doesnt make anyone European. Japanese are not European. Neither koreans are. On the other hand Russia politically isnt European, but culturally/ethnically they are as it takes