"Medieval Balkan Slavs were pretty much like Serbs or Romanians" v2

[Ion Basescul]

I closed the old thread, because some users were attacking each other instead of discussing the topic.
Let's start afresh and try not to let that happen again.

How it all started:

In June, Davidski from Eurogenes claimed that Medieval Balkan Slavs were similar to Serbs or Romanians.



He also said that the Roman era pre-Slavic inhabitants were similar to the Bulgarian Thracian I5769, but with more Steppe ancestry.



Today, he drops another hint at what's to come. He says that medieval samples from the country of North Macedonia look like Balkan Slavs and there was a huge genetic shift from the Iron Age/Hellenistic period that he attributes to the Slavic migration. He once again mentions that the Slavs that came to North Macedonia didn't look like Poles or Ukrainians, but genetically resembled Serbs, Montenegrins, Romanians, etc.

[Daco Celtic]

I closed the old thread, because some users were attacking each other instead of discussing the topic.
Let's start afresh and try not to let that happen again.


Today, he drops another hint at what's to come. He says that medieval samples from the country of North Macedonia look like Balkan Slavs and there was a huge genetic shift from the Iron Age/Hellenistic period that he attributes to the Slavic migration. He once again mentions that the Slavs that came to North Macedonia didn't look like Poles or Ukrainians, but genetically resembled Serbs, Montenegrins, Romanians, etc.

So basically they were more Med-like in the Iron Age/Hellenistic period and were northeast shifted later on with Slavic influence?

[Ion Basescul]

So basically they were more Med-like in the Iron Age/Hellenistic period and were northeast shifted later on with Slavic influence?

Yes, but if you look at modern North Macedonians on K13, they already are pretty similar to Serbs, Montenegrins, Romanians. So what happened looks like an almost total population replacement to me.
Consider the model from below, which models North Macedonians as a sum of Serbs and the Thracian from Bulgaria that Davidski's mentioned.



This is an anecdotal claim of course, but considering that Thracians were described as red headed and there are barely any in their region nowadays, perhaps the population replacement can explain this partially?

[Daco Celtic]

Yes, but if you look at modern North Macedonians on K13, they already are pretty similar to Serbs, Montenegrins, Romanians. So what happened looks like an almost total population replacement to me.
Consider the model from below, which models North Macedonians as a sum of Serbs and the Thracian from Bulgaria that Davidski's mentioned.



This is an anecdotal claim of course, but considering that Thracians were described as red headed and there are barely any in their region nowadays, perhaps the population replacement can explain this partially?

The confusing thing is that these population replacements, to the degree that they did happen, seem spotty and regional throughout SE Europe. Perhaps geography, mountain ranges, and the path of least resistance played a role.

[Coolguy1]

All this shows is that the medieval samples we have from North Macedonia are south Slavic like, which shouldn't surprise anyone. They are obviously mixed with the local population, much like modern day Northern Macedonians. Im sure if you dig up more and more, you will find Avar_Szolad like samples.

[bained]

Who was repeating the "I2a1b is from slavs" meme? bulgaria-early-bronze-age.jpg

[ShereKhan]

Final nail in the coffin for panslavists.

[Moje ime]

Final nail in the coffin for panslavists.

In real life haplogroups are not important.

[Ion Basescul]

In real life haplogroups are not important.

Maybe in Murica, but I'd argue that in Europe where people are very similar to one another regionally, they are pretty darn important. And for history buffs like me, it's interesting to see to what culture your ancestors belonged to over time.

[Ion Basescul]

Who was repeating the "I2a1b is from slavs" meme? bulgaria-early-bronze-age.jpg

Since a couple of years, I2a1b refers to the Germanic branch, old I2a2.
CTS10228 is I2a1a2b1a1.