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Thread: CATHOLIC THREAD

  1. #31
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    What fundamentally questioned my faith and every roman catholic answer I get is some mental acrobatic to defend something you cant defend is Nostra aetate.

    What does the 2 Vatican council introduced Nostra aetate say:
    Spoiler!


    It sounds like relativism, it can even be interpreted that none catholics go to heaven, its weak.

    Pre VC 2 Extra ecclesiam nulla salus was very clear on the other hand, like any faith should be:
    Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally: "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."

    This explains why Popes invited Jews,Muslims, Heretics and let them peform religious rituals in the holy vatican, kissing of the quran, hiding christian symbols infront of jews, francis saying that atheists go to heaven and much more relativistic and straight up heretic actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
    What fundamentally questioned my faith and every roman catholic answer I get is some mental acrobatic to defend something you cant defend is Nostra aetate.

    What does the 2 Vatican council introduced Nostra aetate say:
    Spoiler!


    It sounds like relativism, it can even be interpreted that none catholics go to heaven, its weak.

    Pre VC 2 Extra ecclesiam nulla salus was very clear on the other hand, like any faith should be:
    Council of Florence, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." The same council also ruled that those who die in original sin, but without mortal sin, will also find punishment in hell, but unequally: "But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains."

    This explains why Popes invited Jews,Muslims, Heretics and let them peform religious rituals in the holy vatican, kissing of the quran, hiding christian symbols infront of jews, francis saying that atheists go to heaven and much more relativistic and straight up heretic actions.


    I still don't understand why most catholics are not sedevacantist (maybe due to ignorance or they are in denial) when we do have evidence of freemasonry having infiltrated the Vatican (cf. The list of Mr. Pecorelli in the "osservatore Politico" of september 78...the same pecorelli who got killed later). Also we do know the B'nai B'rith played a key role in this coucil of Vatican II, the same B'nai B'rith that got invited 3 times in the Vatican by Jean-Paul II and since you're talking about the Nostra aetate, they got invited for the 20th anniversay of this declaration at the vatican and this is not a coincidence since we know they influenced it through negociations with the cardinal Bea...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilcar View Post
    I still don't understand why most catholics are not sedevacantist (maybe due to ignorance or they are in denial) when we do have evidence of freemasonry having infiltrated the Vatican (cf. The list of Mr. Pecorelli in the "osservatore Politico" of september 78...the same pecorelli who got killed later). Also we do know the B'nai B'rith played a key role in this coucil of Vatican II, the same B'nai B'rith that got invited 3 times in the Vatican by Jean-Paul II and since you're talking about the Nostra aetate, they got invited for the 20th anniversay of this declaration at the vatican and this is not a coincidence since we know they influenced it through negociations with the cardinal Bea...
    Interesting, can you tell me more?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutone View Post
    Interesting, can you tell me more?
    It's simple in 1978, Mino Pecorelli a member of the massonic loge P2 (italian loge) revealed in the journal "Osservatore Politico" a whole list of 121 freemasons who for the most part were clerics and were highly ranked in the catholic sphere/the Vatican and like I said this same Pecorelli got later killed by "unknown" people. There was another list previously to this one in the journal "Panorama" (of the 10th august 1976) who gives almost the same names except for two additional names. It should be said that Enrico Mino (General in the italian army) was in charge of the investigation after the scandal and concluded that he was certain these lists were right...and guess what he strangely died in 1977 in suspicious circumstances after he was going to reveal the results of his second investigation.

    For example the list of Pecorelli reveals that Agostino Casaroli was in fact a freemason and this man was actually the second most important member of the Vatican Church after the Pope himself (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agostino_Casaroli). There is also the Padre Davide Maria Turoldo the same man who in 1971 in Tirano broke a prayer beads saying " Enough with the medieval superstitions ! " ...he never got excommunicated for this. There was also Jean Villot, member of the Secretariat of State under Paul VI and Jean-Paul II


    And that's nothing yet, many of the popes after Vatican II said weird things which are clearly not in line with what past popes said and did. The ennemies of the Church have infiltrated it, there are enough evidence to defend this claim. I hope you're sedevacantist bro

  5. #35
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    THE TETRAMORPH



    The lion, the bull, the eagle and the angel: the Tetramorph


    The word ‘tetramorph’ etymologically indicates a representation of four elements. In Christian tradition, the prophet Ezekiel describes four creatures with a human face and animal appearance. Already in the Middle Ages, the four evangelists were associated, represented around Christ. In the Romanesque art rooms, there are various notable examples, both in mural painting (the one of Sant Climent de Taüll), as well as in panel painting, such as the one of Baldaquí de Tost.


    !.The lion represents Mark because his Evangelist starts speaking of Saint John the Baptist, who preaches in the wilderness. His voice is like that of the lion, a strong and noble animal, as Jesus would be.

    2.The bull is Luke, because he starts talking of the sacrifice of Zachariah to God and the bull is the symbol of sacrifice, the desire for a spiritual life, which allows man to triumph beyond animal passions and to obtain peace.



    3.The eagle symbolises John because it is an animal which is considered to be wise and clairvoyant, which when it flies it looks straight at the sun, and the evangelist of John is more abstract and theological than the others.

    4.Finally, the angel is Matthew, because he is the only one who talks of the genealogy of Christ, the Son of the Father, and moreover represents divine love, sent by the angles (the messengers of Christ) to the humans.


    A tetramorph is a symbolic arrangement of four differing elements, or the combination of four disparate elements in one unit. The term is derived from the Greek tetra, meaning four, and morph, shape.

    Archaeological evidence exists showing that early man divided the four quarters of the horizon, or space, later a place of sacrifice, such as a temple, and attributed characteristics and spiritual qualities to each quarter. Alternatively the composite elements were carved into mythic creatures such as the ancient Egyptian, Greek and Babylonian sphinxes of antiquity depicting bull-like bodies with birds-wings, lion's paws and human faces. Such composite creatures are found in many mythologies.


    In Christian art, the tetramorph is the union of the symbols of the Four Evangelists, derived from the four living creatures in the Book of Ezekiel, into a single figure or, more commonly, a group of four figures. Each of the four Evangelists is associated with one of the living creatures, usually shown with wings. The most common association, but not the original or only, is: Matthew the man, Mark the lion, Luke the ox, and John the eagle. In Christian art and iconography, Evangelist portraits are often accompanied by tetramorphs, or the symbols alone used to represent them. Evangelist portraits that depict them in their human forms are often accompanied by their symbolic creatures, and Christ in Majesty is often shown surrounded by the four symbols.



    The word comes from the Greek for "four forms" or "shapes". In English usage each symbol may be described as a tetramorph in the singular, and a group as "the tetramorphs", but usually only in contexts where all four are included. The tetramorphs were especially common in Early Medieval art, above all in illuminated Gospel books, but remain common in religious art to the present day.

    Images of unions of different elements into one symbol were originally used by the Ancient Egyptians, Assyrians, and Greeks. The image of the sphinx, found in Egypt and Babylon, depicted the body of a lion and the head of a human, while the harpies of Greek mythology showed bird-like human women.


    Ezekiel's living creatures
    Main article: Living creatures (Bible)
    The prophet Ezekiel lived among the Jews who were exiled to Babylon in the 6th century BC. The creatures in his vision, from which the images of the tetramorph are derived, are reminiscent of ancient Assyrian art.

    The animals associated with the Christian tetramorph originate in the Babylonian symbols of the four fixed signs of the zodiac: the ox representing Taurus; the lion representing Leo; the eagle representing Scorpio; the man or angel representing Aquarius. In Western astrology the four symbols are associated with the elements of, respectively Earth, Fire, Water, and Air. The creatures of the Christian tetramorph were also common in Egyptian, Greek, and Assyrian mythology. The early Christians adopted this symbolism and adapted it for the four Evangelists as the tetramorph, which first appears in Christian art in the 5th century, but whose interpretative origin stems from Irenaeus in the 2nd century.
    The elements of the Christian tetramorph first appear in the vision of Ezekiel, who describes the four creatures as they appear to him in a vision:

    As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.[4]

    They are described later in the Book of Revelation:


    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

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    In the lands of Portugal, Christian Europe was born

    One hundred years after Constantine, and one hundred years before the Frankish Clovis, a monarch little known today, with a court in Braga and ruling over Galicia and northern Portugal, was the first barbarian king in European history to convert to Catholicism. Before him, only, perhaps, the Vandal Genseric, the Germanic chief who transferred his tribe from Spain to North Africa, took Carthage, sacked Rome and managed to transform the Vandals, former masters of horses, into masters of the Mediterranean. But if he ever converted to the Catholic faith, Genseric did not remain in it for long: he apostatized as soon as he could and, converted to the Arian heresy, became a vehement opponent of Catholicism in his domain. Requiarius, quite differently, received the water of baptism and never shook it. Braga owes him the immense honor of having been the second Catholic capital of Europe.

    In Requiario's veins ran the blood of great men. His grandfather was Hermeric, who in the year 409 of our era had crossed the Rhine at the head of a large host of Suevi and other Germans, had invaded Gaul and, shattering the Romans again and again, had come to find in Galicia and Portugal a new homeland to their people. The Empire of Rome knew in these decades the final agony, with weak men for emperors and foreign generals, like the vandal Stilicho, as rulers. It was this dead and exhausted Rome that Requila, son of Hermeric and father of Rechiarius, expelled from half Spain and almost threw it into the Mediterranean.

    Unlike Hermeric, who had been a Germanic pagan, and Requila, who had either converted to the Arius heresy or died a gentile, Rechiarius was the first of the Suevi kings - and of all the Germanic monarchs in Europe - to embrace the Catholic faith. According to Isidore of Seville, whose Historia Suevorum is one of the most important surviving sources on the Suebian monarchy, Rechiarius would have converted to Catholic Christianity even before his coronation. He had his capital in Braga, with a court that was simultaneously composed of German Suebi and Roman-Galicians and native Roman-Portuguese. He was not, however, a Romanizer. Unlike other barbarian kings, so many of whom were mesmerized by the glow of Latin civilization, Rechiarius despised the law and institutions of Rome. After the death of Flavius ​​Aetius, the great Roman general and statesman who defeated Attila in the Catalan Fields, Rechiarius invaded the rest of Spain with the aim of extending the Suevian rule to the entire peninsula. He was defeated by Theodoric, Visigothic king who intervened against the Suebi offensive at the behest of Rome, and forced to flee to "Portugale". It was in "Portugale", today the city of Porto, that he was captured and killed. There followed the sack of the great Catholic city of Braga by the Arian Visigoths, the looting of the churches and the destruction of the Suebian monarchy, which fell into a long and painful anarchy. Thus, dead in Portugal, the first barbarian monarch to convert to Catholicism fell. And with the adoption of the faith of Rome by that German king, the Middle Ages was born.


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    Behold, I stand at the door and knock.
    If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,
    I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
    Revelation 3:20

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

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    Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
    Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
    Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

    Luke 6:37


    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

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    We should pray together my friends. On these next coming days we feel immense love for each other and connect our hearts!

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    Yet to all who did receive him,
    to those who believed in his name,
    he gave the right to become children of God


    John 1:12

    Second reading from the Letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians
    1 Cor 11:23-26

    Brothers and sisters:
    I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you,
    that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over,
    took bread, and, after he had given thanks,
    broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you.
    Do this in remembrance of me.”
    In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying,
    “This cup is the new covenant in my blood.
    Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
    For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup,
    you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.


    From the Gospel according to John
    Jn 13:1-15

    Before the feast of Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come
    to pass from this world to the Father.
    He loved his own in the world and he loved them to the end.
    The devil had already induced Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot, to hand him over.

    So, during supper,
    fully aware that the Father had put everything into his power
    and that he had come from God and was returning to God,
    he rose from supper and took off his outer garments.
    He took a towel and tied it around his waist.
    Then he poured water into a basin
    and began to wash the disciples’ feet
    and dry them with the towel around his waist.
    He came to Simon Peter, who said to him,
    “Master, are you going to wash my feet?”
    Jesus answered and said to him,
    “What I am doing, you do not understand now,
    but you will understand later.”
    Peter said to him, “You will never wash my feet.”
    Jesus answered him,
    “Unless I wash you, you will have no inheritance with me.”
    Simon Peter said to him,
    “Master, then not only my feet, but my hands and head as well.”
    Jesus said to him,
    “Whoever has bathed has no need except to have his feet washed,
    for he is clean all over;
    so you are clean, but not all.”
    For he knew who would betray him;
    for this reason, he said, “Not all of you are clean.”


    So when he had washed their feet
    and put his garments back on and reclined at table again,
    he said to them, “Do you realize what I have done for you?
    You call me ‘teacher’ and ‘master,’ and rightly so, for indeed I am.
    If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet,
    you ought to wash one another’s feet.
    I have given you a model to follow,
    so that as I have done for you, you should also do.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Socks and sandals are respectable though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    I don't mind being the dumbest, as long as I am the prettiest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

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