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here's the Vlach thread of the week awardOriginally Posted by Ülev
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On the basis of 361 samples, Haplogroup I occurs at 32% in Romanians.[72] The highest frequency of I2a1 (I-P37) in the Balkans today was present before the Slavic expansion and is owed to indigenous tribes,[73] and is particularly suggested to have been common among the ancient Thracians in Romania.
According to 335 sampled Romanians, 15% of them belong to R1a.[75] Haplogroup R1a among Romanians is entirely from the Eastern European variety Z282 and may be a result of Baltic, Thracian or Slavic descent. R1a-Z280 outnumbers R1a-M458 among Romanians, the opposite phenomena is typical for Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians. 12% of the Romanians belong to R1b, the Alpino-Italic branch R1b-U152 is at 2% per 330 samples, a lower frequency recorded than other Balkan peoples.[76]
According to 335 sampled Romanians, 15% of them belong to R1a.[75] Haplogroup R1a among Romanians is entirely from the Eastern European variety Z282 and may be a result of Baltic, Thracian or Slavic descent. R1a-Z280 outnumbers R1a-M458 among Romanians, the opposite phenomena is typical for Poles, Czechs and Bulgarians. 12% of the Romanians belong to R1b, the Alpino-Italic branch R1b-U152 is at 2% per 330 samples, a lower frequency recorded than other Balkan peoples.[76]
The branches R1b-U106, R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21 make up 1% respectively.[76] The eastern branches R1b-M269* and L23* (Z2103) make up 7% and outnumber the Atlantic branches, they prevail in parts of east, central Europe and as a result of Greek colonisation – in parts of Sicily as well.[76] 8% of the Romanians belong to E1b1b1a1 (E-M78) per 265 samples.[77]
From a group of 178 males from 9 Romanian counties, mainly from Transylvania, most of them belong to the Paleolithic European lineage I2a (17% I2a1b, 2% I2a2, 3% I2*), to R1a (20%) and to E1b1b1a1b (19%).[71] Haplogroup J2 is represented at 16% among them, unlike the structure in the Apennine Peninsula, among Romanians the J2b clade prevails.[71] About 10% of these belong to Haplogroup R1b in all counties. R1b-U152, the specific Alpino-Italic clade, is represented at 3% among them, the prevailing branches are eastern, except for Brașov where Germanic U106 is most frequent. U106 is also prevalent clade of R1b in Buhuși and Piatra Neamț. In Brașov and Dolj I2 prevails, in Cluj – R1a. Another 6% of these belong to I1 and 2% to G2a. T, N, Q are also represented by frequencies of less than a percent.[71]
Despite negligible Roman genetic traits in general, one study[78] of 219 Romanians found strong indications in other parts of Transylvania, in the region corresponding to Roman Dacia. The highest frequency of R1b (31–32%) in Eastern Europe only behind Trebic in the Czech Republic (32.7%) was found in the Romanian counties Arad and Alba, that experienced Celtic settlement, the heaviest and only Roman colonisation with a significant number of colonists from Noricum and West Pannonia, and later German settlement.
The subclade of R1b was not revealed in the case, but no similar high or prevailing frequency of Eastern subclades of R1b has ever been found in Europe. Three of the ten towns that were almost exclusively populated by Roman citizens (Apulum, Ampelum and Potaissa) were in present Alba Iulia county, not far from the Roman capital Sarmizegetusa. Genetic isolate due to migration from unattested migration from the Middle East would not be a plausible historic-geographical event as even the eastern branch of R1b in Europe is different than these in the Middle East. The only ethnic groups with higher frequencies of R1b in the East are the Aromanians due to their main ancestry from the Roman West. In some occasions the U106 branch, which is minimal among Romanians, rises to the prevailing clade in some cities, but still at a low frequency. The high frequency of R1b was found in other places in Transylvania – 25% in Maramureș and Harghita, 20% in Mehedinți, 14% in Bihor, 11% in Vrancea, 0% in Neamț. Excluding Arad and Alba Iulia, Haplogroup I+G was found as most frequent in all, except Maramureș, where Haplogroup J was found to be prevalent.
According to an autosomal analysis of eastern Europeans and adjacent peoples, the group of Bulgarians and Macedonians is located together with Romanians.[73] Most West Slavs, Hungarians, and Austrians tend to share as many identical by-descent segments with South Slavs as with Romanians, Torbeshi and Gagauzes.[73]
Showing the importance of geography, a 2017 paper, concentrating on the mtDNA, signalling how Romania has been "a major crossroads between Asia and Europe" and thus "experienced continuous migration and invasion episodes", while precising that "previous studies" show Romanians "exhibit genetic similarity with other Europeans" or that "another study pointed to possible segregation within the Middle East populations", also mentions how "signals of Asian maternal lineages were observed in all Romanian historical provinces, indicating gene flow along the migration routes through East Asia and Europe, during different time periods, namely, the Upper Paleolithic period and/or, with a likely greater preponderance, the Middle Ages", and concludes that "our current findings based on the mtDNA analysis of populations in historical provinces of Romania suggest similarity between populations in Transylvania and Central Europe," on one hand, as well between Wallachia, Moldavia, and Dobrudja with the Balkans, on the another, "supported both by the observed clines in haplogroup frequencies for several European and Asian maternal lineages and MDS analyses."[79]
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ai fost vreodata in ukraina? e o alta lume altogether
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We have more samples than that.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...lic-of-Moldova
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https://voca.ro/19J5TVVRWllO
Last edited by Aspirin; 09-23-2020 at 07:58 PM.
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Agreed, but at one point it feels that the language here is not that important in itself as much as a sign of ”we survived, woah”. That's a feat in itself, but imo we should open our eyes a bit more at our neighbours and appreciate that we're not unique but part of a bigger community.
Just a 26.6% European individual
G25 "26.6% Austrian:Austria6 + 73.4% Romanian:G408" "0.0096"
EU TEST 86.9% RO + 13.1% West_&_Central_German @ 4.98
K13 56.9% Tu(ran)scan + 43.1% Ukrainian @ 4.02
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How do you define a Latin culture? The Balkan peninsula was very much connected to the Greco-Roman world prior to the Slavic invasions, anyway.
It is both economic and cultural.
Romanians do share similarities with them but that doesn't mean they're confused people speaking a Romance language
Let me re-post this
In the Renaissance Romanians begin to be mentioned in journey and political reports, providing information about the name they give themselves, about their language, customs and the countries they inhabit. The self-designation of Romanians as Romans is mentioned in some 30 scholarly works as early as the 16th century by mainly Italian humanists travelling in Transylvania, Moldavia and Walachia.
Ioan-Aurel Pop, Italian Authors and the Romanian Identity in the 16th Century, Revue Roumaine d'Histoire, XXXIX, 1-4, p. 39-49, Bucarest, 2000
In 1532, Francesco della Valle accompanying Governor Aloisio Gritti to Transylvania, Walachia and Moldavia notes that Romanians preserved the name of the Romans (Romani) and "they call themselves in their language Romanians (Romei)". He even cites the sentence "Sti Rominest ?" ("do you speak Romanian ?" for originally Romanian "Știi românește ?") Further, this author reports what he could learn from local orthodox monks, that "in the present they call themselves Romanians (Romei)"
"Their language is little different to our Italian..."
... in Notizie intorno ai romeni nella letteratura geografica italiana del Cinquecento, in Bulletin de la Section Historique, XVI, 1929, p. 1- 90
"Tout ce pays: la Wallachie, la Moldavie et la plus part de la Transylvanie, a esté peuplé des colonies romaines du temps de Trajan l'empereur… Ceux du pays se disent vrais successeurs des Romains et nomment leur parler romanechte, c'est-ŕ-dire romain
... in Voyage fait par moy, Pierre Lescalopier l’an 1574 de Venise a Constantinople
https://books.google.de/books?id=50V...0Romano&f=true
"Valachos qui Moldaviam et Transalpinam incolunt, seipsos pro Romanorum progenie tenere; dicunt enim communi modo loquendi: Sie noi sentem Rumeni: etiam nos sumus Romani. Item: Noi sentem di sange Rumena: Nos sumus de sanguine Romano"
Martin Szentiványi in 1699 quotes the following: «Si noi sentem Rumeni» ("Și noi suntem români" – "We are Romans as well") and «Noi sentem di sange Rumena» ("Noi suntem de sânge român" – We are of Roman blood).[22] Notably, Szentiványi used Italian-based spellings to try to write the Romanian words.
Polish Humanist Stanislaus Orichovius notes as late as 1554 that "these left behind Dacians in their own language are called Romini, after the Romans, and Walachi in Polish, after the Italians".
... in I. Dlugossus, Historiae polonicae libri XII, col 1555
A chronicler and mercenary from Verona, Alessandro Guagnini (1538–1614), traveled twice in Moldavia and helped Despot Voda (Ioan Iacob Heraclid) gain the throne in 1563. In his biography of the prince, "Vita despothi Principis Moldaviae", he described to the people of Moldavia:"This nation of Wallachians refer to themselves as Romana and say that they originate from exiled Romans of Italy. Their language is a mixture of Latin and Italian languages, so that an Italian can easily understand a Wallachian"
... Adolf Armbruster, Romanitatea românilor: istoria unei idei, Editia a II-a, Editura Enciclopedica, Bucure?ti, 1993, pg. 47
The geographer Anton Friedrich Büsching writes in 1754 that "the Wallachians, who are remnant and progeny of the old Roman colonies thus call themselves Romanians, which means Romans"
The Croat Ante Verancic states in 1570 that "« Vlachs » from Transylvania, Moldavia and Wallachia say that they are « romani »" : "...Valacchi, qui se Romanos nominant..." "Gens quae ear terras (Transsylvaniam, Moldaviam et Transalpinam) nostra aetate incolit, Valacchi sunt, eaque a Romania ducit originem, tametsi nomine longe alieno"
...De situ Transsylvaniae, Moldaviae et Transaplinae, in Monumenta Hungariae Historica, Scriptores; II, Pesta, 1857, p. 120.
These old texts clearly mention Romanians identifying as Romance people, not as Balkan Slavs
Last edited by Tommie; 09-23-2020 at 09:16 PM.
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