who are the Vlachs... / Ko su Vlasi ..

[Seya]

Excuses, excuses! These are SIRB, now if we add SARB the list will just be as long. Many Romanian cities and towns had been RENAMED from Serbian to Romanian just like Beograd to Alba iulia. So the Sarba dance which is the Serbian Sun dance Kolo was the result of invasions? C’mon, the Serbian ancestry of Romanians cannot be denied, l mean look at the Y-DNA of Serbs and Romanians and compare! I’m not trolling just stating the obvious, sorry.

ok man. whatever makes you happy. i can be sebian if you like. no problem for me

[vbnetkhio]

they are Romanians.

now we can lock the thread.

[Novi Pazar]

ok man. whatever makes you happy. i can be sebian if you like. no problem for me

Okay then.

[Novi Pazar]

ok man. whatever makes you happy. i can be sebian if you like. no problem for me

Okay then.

[ixulescu]

Ureche nu se referă la moldoveni ca români nicăieri, doar spune că au aceleași origini cu românii din Transilvania, el chiar se referă la dînșii ca români, pe moldoveni îi numește moldoveni, plus folosește termenul limba moldovenească. Vlahii și românii nu e una și aceiași, nu există nici o mărturie despre români în Moldova înainte de sec. XVII, totul începe cu pătrunderea elementelor valahe în societatea moldovenească după campania turco-valahă din 1574 împotriva Moldovei, după care pe tronul Moldovei a venit Petru Șchiopul. La urma urmei muntenii singuri în cronicele lor spun că moldovenii se deosebesc de se numesc pe sine "Moldovan".

This is just hilarious. It's a perfect example of why "Moldovenism" appeals only to idiots.

Let's take it step-by-step.

1. Moldovenists deny that the word "Romanian" was used before the 19th century, or if it was it meant "serf" not "Romanian". Yet, the word "Romanian" appears many times in the first major Moldovan chronicle (Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei, written in the 17th century) and it denotes the ethnicity, not a social status.

2. Moldovenists deny that Moldovans ever used the word Romanian to refer to themselves before the Union in 1859. Yet, we can read in all Moldovan chronicles exactly the opposite. Even in the first chronicle, Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei, Moldovans are called Romanians, from the very beginning of Moldova as a state, quote:

"Iar Iațco prisecariul, deaca au înțeles de descălecarea maramorășénilor, îndată s-au dus și el în Țara Leșască, de au dus ruși mulți și i-au descălecat pre apa Sucévei în sus și pre Sirétiu despre Botoșiani. Și așa de sârgu s-au lățit rumănii în gios și rușii în sus."

This basically says that Romanians from Maramures colonized Moldova with Romanians in the South and Ruthenians (described as Russians from Poland) in the North. Note, it says Romanians not Moldovans. And that makes perfect sense, because the name Moldovan didn't even exist at the time of the colonization (14th century), whereas Romanian did.

3. Another Moldovenist nonsensical claim is that before the 19th century "ruman" (the spelling that uses the letter "u") strictly meant "serf". This is obviously false, since "ruman" is extensively used in Moldovan chronicles to designate the ethnicity. The words ruman/serb/neighbor had for a while the informal meaning of "serf" (because serfdom was widespread in the region), but they have always designated the respective ethnicities. In addition to this, ruman and roman were just alternative spellings and meant exactly the same thing, contracting the Moldovenist claim. In "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" both "ruman" and "roman" are used to designate Romanians.

4. I see here an original Aspirin claim that Maramuresan Vlachs were not Romanians. Bigger bullshit is hard to find, not even Hungarians claim such nonsense. But again, in "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" it's explicitely noted that Romanians lived in Maramures:

"Rumânii, câți să află lăcuitori la Țara Ungurească și la Ardeal și la Maramoroșu, de la un loc suntu cu moldovénii și toți de la Râm să trag."

In order for Aspirin's claim to be true, it would require that in Maramures to exist at the same time both Romanians and some misterious Vlachs nobody heard about. Obviously that's bullshit, nobody saw 2 different types of Vlachs in Romania - the Vlachs of Romania are the Romanians.

[Aspirin]

This is just hilarious. It's a perfect example of why "Moldovenism" appeals only to idiots.

Let's take it step-by-step.

1. Moldovenists deny that the word "Romanian" was used before the 19th century, or if it was it meant "serf" not "Romanian". Yet, the word "Romanian" appears many times in the first major Moldovan chronicle (Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei, written in the 17th century) and it denotes the ethnicity, not a social status.

2. Moldovenists deny that Moldovans ever used the word Romanian to refer to themselves before the Union in 1859. Yet, we can read in all Moldovan chronicles exactly the opposite. Even in the first chronicle, Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei, Moldovans are called Romanians, from the very beginning of Moldova as a state, quote:



This basically says that Romanians from Maramures colonized Moldova with Romanians in the South and Ruthenians (described as Russians from Poland) in the North. Note, it says Romanians not Moldovans. And that makes perfect sense, because the name Moldovan didn't even exist at the time of the colonization (14th century), whereas Romanian did.

3. Another Moldovenist nonsensical claim is that before the 19th century "ruman" (the spelling that uses the letter "u") strictly meant "serf". This is obviously false, since "ruman" is extensively used in Moldovan chronicles to designate the ethnicity. The words ruman/serb/neighbor had for a while the informal meaning of "serf" (because serfdom was widespread in the region), but they have always designated the respective ethnicities. In addition to this, ruman and roman were just alternative spellings and meant exactly the same thing, contracting the Moldovenist claim. In "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" both "ruman" and "roman" are used to designate Romanians.

4. I see here an original Aspirin claim that Maramuresan Vlachs were not Romanians. Bigger bullshit is hard to find, not even Hungarians claim such nonsense. But again, in "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" it's explicitely noted that Romanians lived in Maramures:

In order for Aspirin's claim to be true, it would require that in Maramures to exist at the same time both Romanians and some misterious Vlachs nobody heard about. Obviously that's bullshit, nobody saw 2 different types of Vlachs in Romania - the Vlachs of Romania are the Romanians.

Acestea îs adaosuri la cronica originală a lui Ureche, adăugate de Simion Dascălul cîteva decenii mai tîrziu, un individ originar din Transilvania. Dacă nu ai fi o putoare și ai mai verifica sursa pe care citezi, poate nu te-ai faci de rîs așa. Ureche nu folosește termenul român pentru moldoveni nicăieri, e folosit strict pentru românii din Transilvania. Ureche doar spune că moldovenii și românii au aceiași origine ceea ce nimeni nu neagă asta. Dascălul în genere spune că Moldova jumătate e de ruși chiar și la vremea lui, ceea ce e imposibil, dar dacă e adevărat, atunic moldovenii la sigur nu-s rumâni.

[ixulescu]

Acestea îs adaosuri la cronica originală a lui Ureche, adăugate de Simion Dascălul cîteva decenii mai tîrziu, un individ originar din Transilvania. Dacă nu ai fi o putoare și ai mai verifica sursa pe care citezi, poate nu te-ai faci de rîs așa. Ureche nu folosește termenul român pentru moldoveni nicăieri, e folosit strict pentru românii din Transilvania. Ureche doar spune că moldovenii și românii au aceiași origine ceea ce nimeni nu neagă asta. Dascălul în genere spune că Moldova jumătate e de ruși chiar și la vremea lui, ceea ce e imposibil, dar dacă e adevărat, atunic moldovenii la sigur nu-s rumâni.

You are persisting in stupidity. I didn't say all of those quotes belong to Gh. Ureche, just that they come from "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei". Simion Dascalul was a Moldovan not Transylvanian. He was a contemporary of Gh. Ureche, and continued "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" after Ureche's death. Oldest preserved copies of "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" are those of Simion Dascalul. Simion Dascalul says that Maramures Romanians colonized Moldova with Russians from Poland (in other words Ruthenians) in the North and Romanians in the South. It is a fact that Northern Moldovans have Ruthenian admixture - that said formation of Moldova didn't stop in 1350. Many more Romanians came from Transylvania, some Hungarians too. The end result is that Moldovans are far closer to average Romanian than to any other nation in the region - Moldovans are just the local variety of Romanians, deal with it.

[Aspirin]

You are persisting in stupidity. I didn't say all of those quotes belong to Gh. Ureche, just that they come from "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei". Simion Dascalul was a Moldovan not Transylvanian. He was a contemporary of Gh. Ureche, and continued "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" after Ureche's death. Oldest preserved copies of "Letopisetul Tarii Moldovei" are those of Simion Dascalul. Simion Dascalul says that Maramures Romanians colonized Moldova with Russians from Poland (in other words Ruthenians) in the North and Romanians in the South. It is a fact that Northern Moldovans have Ruthenian admixture - that said formation of Moldova didn't stop in 1350. Many more Romanians came from Transylvania, some Hungarians too. The end result is that Moldovans are far closer to average Romanian than to any other nation in the region - Moldovans are just the local variety of Romanians, deal with it.

N-o mai continuat el nici o cronică, doar a adăugat ceva amănunte noi pentru care a stîrnit ura lui Costin și Cantemir. Și el era din Transilvania, cred că ți-i lene șu să cauți, da dacă ești rumîn, n-ai ce să-i faci. Moldovenii îs total diferiți de rumîni mai ales genetic, nu degeaba Costin îi numește pe rumîni popor negru.

[ixulescu]

N-o mai continuat el nici o cronică, doar a adăugat ceva amănunte noi pentru care a stîrnit ura lui Costin și Cantemir. Și el era din Transilvania, cred că ți-i lene șu să cauți, da dacă ești rumîn, n-ai ce să-i faci. Moldovenii îs total diferiți de rumîni mai ales genetic, nu degeaba Costin îi numește pe rumîni popor negru.

You're a fucking idiot. Simion Dascalul added 70 years to the 230 years covered by Gh. Ureche. These were not just "some details", it's basically a 4th of the book.

Moldovans from Romania cluster with the rest of Romanians, as shown on Ion Basescul PCA. Moldovans from RM are a bit different because of the East Slavic admixture assimilated in the past 200 years - but they're still closer to Romanians than to any other ethnicity - they are Northeastern Romanians (Aspirin Românaşu' is a good example).

[Aspirin]

You're a fucking idiot. Simion Dascalul added 70 years to the 230 years covered by Gh. Ureche. These were not just "some details", it's basically a 4th of the book.

Moldovans from Romania cluster with the rest of Romanians, as shown on Ion Basescul PCA. Moldovans from RM are a bit different because of the East Slavic admixture assimilated in the past 200 years - but they're still closer to Romanians than to any other ethnicity - they are Northeastern Romanians (Aspirin Românaşu' is a good example).

Moldovenii nu-s aproape de romîni, populațiile cele mai aproape sînt sîrbii, croații și ucrainenii carpatici, doar pentru cei de la sud care s-au mixat cu bulgari/găgăuzi romînii îs aproape genetic. Moldovenii din Romînia desigur îs aprope de noi genetic în mare parte, dar asta că nu-s romîni la origini, s-au romînizat în ultimii 160 de ani. Unde eu trăiesc, populația e foarte nordică, așa că e imposibil să fii rom genetic aici, e destul să te uiți și la înfățișarea oamenilor.