A proposal for a truely federal United Kingdom

[Occident]

England, divided in to a multitude of regions

Great Britain has been an incredibly centralised nation for a very long time, London dominating the economic and political life of the nation. The decade-by-decade increase in the power of Westminster finally received a well deserved slow-down with devolution. Or so we might of hoped. In reality power in this country remains highly centralised and distant from the people. That Scotland and Wales now have their own Parliament and Assembly respectively gives us an opportunity to re-evaluate the dominance of Westminster.

What I propose here is an eleven unit federation of Britain, with the English units as depicted above, plus Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. These would have stronger powers than the current parliament of Scotland, being the principle unit of governance for the domestic sphere. The intention is to bring government closer to the people, with political units large enough to resist the centralising power of Westminster.

We live in a country where our economic and social life is increasingly dictated by the state. We pay higher tax and endure greater regulations than any previous generation (with the exception of emergency situations like world war 2). Strong regional governments would prevent the wholesale ban of cultural practices on the basis of a southern urbanite morality, for example each federal unit would decide for itself whether or not to ban fox hunting or smoking in bars. They would enable the tailoring of public services to the wishes of local people, rather than be based on the prejudices of Westminster bureaucrats, the value of the tax we pay would be more visible as it would be for local uses, and regional cultural symbols and events would have a new outlet of expression as representative of social and political community within a wider union of the British people.

This would provide a neat way to solve other constitutional loose ends in Britain. The mid-Lothian question would be answered, and we could bring House of Lords reform to a satisfactory conclusion by making it representative of the federal units (as in the American and German federal example).

I appreciate it goes against the grain of British parliamentary traditions, however a greater threat to our political and social traditions is the ever increasing power of the state. A federal Britain would put the British people in a far better position to resist potentially tyrannical rule.

[The Lawspeaker]

I take it you want to change England into a "United States of England" ? What would be the plans for Scotland and Wales ? And for Ireland (of course) ?

[Occident]

I appreciate my post was quite long, and the initial picture perhaps misleading in this regard, but I do state that I would want Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland to be involved as federal units with equal powers to the English units.

[The Lawspeaker]

I appreciate my post was quite long, and the initial picture perhaps misleading in this regard, but I do state that I would want Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland to be involved as federal units with equal powers to the English units.

Do you have a map that includes the Scottish, Welsh and (Northern) Irish federations ?

What I see is a weakened England and a unified, centralized Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It's a fairly anti-English plan.

[Occident]

Sadly not, though I know that would be ideal! When I made this map (a little while ago) I couldnt find a high quality county map of the entire United Kingdom, so I settled on just using this English map I found. But to be absolutely clear, I am talking about Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland each forming a federal unit themselves within the British federation, rather than further dividing them up. They are thus not so neccesary for the map, as we are all agreed on what Scotland currently looks like, wheras these regions I have drawn up for England are potentially more contentious and requiring of debate.

I disagree that is in any way anti-English. Most of these English regions would still each have an equal or higher population than Scotland. Remember that Scotland is demographically a very small portion of the UK, its not suddenly going to come out and dominate all these English regions, some of which are massively more economically powerful. Furthermore your positions seems to presuppose that England and Scotland are some how inplicitly against one another.

[Albion]

Okay, I'll just highlight two concerns of mine:England under this idea ceases to exist as an entity under this plan.

Great Britain has been a incredibly centralised nation for a very long time, London dominating the economic and political life of the nation. The decade-by-decade increase in the power of Westminster finally received a well deserved slow-down with devolution. Or so we might of hoped. In reality power in this country remains highly centralised and distant from the people. That Scotland and Wales now have their own Parliament and Assembly respectively gives us an opportunity to re-evaluate the dominance of Westminster.

Agreed. The South East holds all the power currently.

2). Strong regional governments would prevent the wholesale ban of cultural practices on the basis of a southern urbanite morality, for example each federal unit would decide for itself whether or not to ban fox hunting or smoking in bars. They would enable the tailoring of public services to the wishes of local people, rather than be based on the prejudices of Westminster bureaucrats, the value of the tax we pay would be more visible as it would be for local uses, and regional cultural symbols and events would have a new outlet of expression as representative of social and political community within a wider union of the British people.

Good.

and we could bring House of Lords reform to a satisfactory conclusion by making it representative of the federal units (as in the American and German federal example).

I appreciate it goes against the grain of British parliamentary traditions, however a greater threat to our political and social traditions is the ever increasing power of the state. A federal Britain would put the British people in a far better position to resist potentially tyrannical rule.

You're a British Nationalist and regionalist aren't you?

The main problem what I see in your plan is that England ceases to exist - instead the English regions should be accountable to a English Committee of Regions or something like that, a "United States of England' within the UK as Civis Batavi says.

[The Lawspeaker]

Aha. So if I get this straight you propose to divide up England while Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland remain unified. A weakened decentralised England vs the three Celtic centralized "federal units". Yes right.. I know who would benefit and it wouldn't be the English.

So unless the others would be divided up as well in the historic counties (or in the case of Scotland - the territories of the clans) while the "federal capitals" of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland granted rights so the English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish would be seen as nations, then there is no balance of power whatsoever.

[Albion]

Do you have a map that includes the Scottish, Welsh and (Northern) Irish federations ?

What I see is a weakened England and a unified, centralized Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It's a fairly anti-English plan.

Exactly! That is what I see. I see England getting screwed and broken up into a lot of little pieces simply to balance it out a bit with the Celtic nations.

Why should we sacrifice our nation just because it is the dominant player? The English regions would likely club together against the Celts on some issues anyway, and all those English regions will still hold more influence than 3 Celtic ones.

I don't see why we have to end England for the sake's of the Celts.



I've attached a map for you, its not great but its fairly easy to colour in.

[Occident]

Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are each very small. They would each be no more centralised and enjoy no more benefit from this plan than the proposed Wessex or Yorkshire. The English stand to benefit the most from this plan as they currently have the most distant form of government.

[The Lawspeaker]

Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are each very small. They would each be no more centralised and enjoy no more benefit from this plan than the proposed Wessex or Yorkshire. The English stand to benefit the most from this plan as they currently have the most distant form of government.

Are you actually British ? I wouldn't call Scotland small. Maybe in population size compared to England (thank the Highland Clearances for that -- that actually because of there being no investments in the areas and young people leaving in droves actually last until this very day) but in size..

No I would decentralize the UK by returning each country to it's own rule and decentralizing it from there. Each country could have a different system of government and it's own capital with the "federal government" in Westminster only concerning itself with defense, a federal mint, mediation and foreign affairs.

Kingdom of England --- decentralized into the shires and counties.
Kingdom of Scotland --- the same and in some areas the clan lands.
(Principality of) Wales --- could work with territories and shires.
Northern Ireland --- either handed over to Ireland or having a more centralized government in Belfast.

And for the rest there could be special provisions for the Isle of Man, Cornwall, Channel Islands, Scilly Islands, Shetland Islands.