What was ethnic breakdown of Transylvania in the 1400s and before? Were Romanians always majority?

[ixulescu]

Probably most of the Hungarians of Transylvania are descendants of Magyarized Slavs and Bulgars living in Transylvania in the Medieval era, that's one of the reasons they adopted so many Slavic toponomy. Only a few examples: Gerend, Dombró, Gambuc, Csongva, Dombó, Torockó, Polyán, Mohács, Lóna, Lekence, Herepe, Pacalka, Akna, Zsitve, Bázna, Radna, Beszterce. We don't know of East Romance names in early Hungarian toponomy, which doesn't make any sense if next to Slavs also Romanians were already living there. However we do know of numerous Romanian toponomy adoptions from Hungarian.

If we remove Hungarians from the source, Eastern Hungarians (Transylvania, Székely and Csángó) are closest to Western Balkans (the most Slavic Balkan area) rather than Eastern Balkans as the Romanians.

Transylvanian Romanians are also closer to Serbs than Bulgarians, but that doesn't say much, since it reflects geography and migrations.

On the toponymy front, it's pretty clear to me that you're not familiar with Romanian names, and that's fine, just don't pretend you are.

[Dunai]

Transylvanian Romanians are also closer to Serbs than Bulgarians, but that doesn't say much, since it reflects geography and migrations.

On the toponymy front, it's pretty clear to me that you're not familiar with Romanian names, and that's fine, just don't pretend you are.

Actually it's not true based on genetic results, as there is barely any difference between the average Romanian and average Transylvania Romanian score. Both populations are shaped as the southernmost West Balkans population, Montenegro, which is in the area of probable origins place of the Vlachs/Proto-Romanians.

Distance to: Romanian_Transylvania
1.11040533 Romanian
1.15477270 Montenegrin
3.79145091 Serb
4.81752011 Moldovan
4.85502832 Bulgarian
5.57640565 Serb_B&H
6.27407364 Bosniak
6.82904825 NorthMacedonian
7.98822258 Croat_B&H
10.64226010 Kosovan
10.93553382 Croat
11.92929168 Hungarian
12.02216703 Albanian
14.15848156 Slovenian
14.46728378 Greek
16.05831560 Swiss_French
16.66386810 Austrian
16.93035144 Slovak
17.39308771 Italian
18.04647888 Swiss_German
18.65143426 Swiss_Italian
18.86527233 Czech
21.88323102 Corsican
21.89928538 German
22.37670664 Ukrainian

Target: Romanian_Transylvania
Distance: 0.7719% / 0.77193138 | ADC: 0.25x
82.8 Montenegrin
14.6 Moldovan
2.6 Bulgarian

Target: Romanian_Transylvania
Distance: 0.8348% / 0.83484485 | ADC: 0.5x
89.6 Montenegrin
10.4 Moldovan

[blogen]

Dude, Romanians had to deal with Tatar and Turkish invasions all the time. Basta was a joke compared to the dangers Romanians were faced with. The territory of Wallachia remained 80% unpopulated until 1700s because of the constant invasions. Besides, Basta had no regard for Romanians either - Romanians as you know, were not Catholic.

Your ignorance is your problem.

ps. The horror of Basta highly affected the lowland Romanian population in Mezőség for example. Their fate was identical with the eradicted Magyars. But they had reinforcements from the mountains!

[ixulescu]

Actually it's not true based on genetic results, as there is barely any difference between the average Romanian and average Transylvania Romanian score. Both populations are shaped as the southernmost West Balkans population, Montenegro, which is in the area of probable origins place of the Vlachs/Proto-Romanians.

Nonsense. Average Serb is more Northern than average Southern Romanian for the simple reason that Southern Romanians are less Slavic than Serbs. But average Serb is not more Northern than average Romanian, see the k36 PCA below.

On the map you can see than Romanians are more Northern than Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Dalmatians, Macedonians, Albanians and Kosovars. Romanians are nowhere near the "southernmost West Balkans population" as you claim, despite being less Slavic than some of them.

[ixulescu]

Your ignorance is your problem.

ps. The horror of Basta highly affected the lowland Romanian population in Mezőség for example. Their fate was identical with the eradicted Magyars. But they had reinforcements from the mountains!

Great retort, full of facts.

I'm not even gonna bother.

[Jana]

Nonsense. Average Serb is more Northern than average Southern Romanian for the simple reason that Southern Romanians are less Slavic than Serbs. But average Serb is not more Northern than average Romanian, see the k36 PCA below.

On the map you can see than Romanians are more Northern than Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Dalmatians, Macedonians, Albanians and Kosovars. Romanians are nowhere near the "southernmost West Balkans population" as you claim, despite being less Slavic than some of them.

No. There are no Dalmatians on this map, and ofcourse Dalmatian Croats are much more northern than Romanians, LMAO!
Please, spare us from lies.

Spoiler!

Distance to: Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia
0.72917762 Serb_B&H_Bosnia_proper
0.97539735 Croat_B&H
1.26755670 Bosniak
1.27890578 Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia
1.71405951 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
1.87502000 Bosniak_Sarajevo
2.08158593 Serb_B&H
2.10959712 Croat_B&H_Bosnia
2.16342321 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
2.25953535 Croat_Istria_&_Kvarner
3.04840942 Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
3.16581743 Serb_Croatia
3.16829607 Serb_Croatia_Kordun&Banija
3.22772366 Serb_Croatia_Lika
3.23640232 Serb_Serbia_West&Central
3.25416656 Serb_B&H_Krajina
3.27441598 Moldova_North
3.38910018 Romania_Maramures
3.46927946 Serb
3.57752708 Hungarian_Csango
3.64380296 Croat
3.69023035 Serb_Serbia
3.92597759 Serb_Croatia_Dalmatia
3.95418765 Moldova_average
3.96453024 Moldova_Centre
4.00932663 Croat_Slavonia
4.11511847 Croat_Croatia
4.34904587 Hungarian_Transylvania
4.43852453 Hungarian_Szekely
4.90016326 Bosniak_Bosnia_proper
5.03288188 Hungarian_Alfold
5.18976878 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.40054627 Serb_B&H_Herzegovina
5.61756175 Romania_Crisana
5.87827356 Hungarian
6.16881674 Serb_Serbia_South&East
6.34971653 Croat_Croatia_Central
6.53486037 Romania_Moldavia_South
6.66287475 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
6.69233143 Bulgarian_Pleven
6.74983704 Hungarian_Budapest
7.15854035 Hungarian_Transdanubia
7.21607234 Romania_Transylvania
7.65747347 Slovenian
7.68605881 Romania_average
7.70088307 Montenegrin
8.27051389 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
8.39620748 Bulgarian_Sofia
8.44197844 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
8.63865152 Romania_Banat

Closest Romance population to Dalmatians are North Moldovans, with average Romanians being miles from them.

Stop embarassing yourself. And yes, Transylvanian Romanians are very southern Balkan people closest to Montenegrins as calculators show. Live with it.

[Jana]

And yes, average Serbs are ofcourse more northern than average Romanians. We have now precise tools to determine that, no need for myths and legends.
However their clusters overlap the most, with Serbs being more homogenous and Romanians more to both (N/S) extremes.

[Dunai]

Nonsense. Average Serb is more Northern than average Southern Romanian for the simple reason that Southern Romanians are less Slavic than Serbs. But average Serb is not more Northern than average Romanian, see the k36 PCA below.

On the map you can see than Romanians are more Northern than Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Dalmatians, Macedonians, Albanians and Kosovars. Romanians are nowhere near the "southernmost West Balkans population" as you claim, despite being less Slavic than some of them.

K13 is the standard to population comparisons, as it has much more updated results and larger sample size than K36, and I simply looked at the data collected by a Romanian/Moldovan user, according to him based on hundreds of samples. I simply don't care about suppositions but always look at the data, to facts to draw my conclusions. Even after hundreds of years living North of the Danube, Modern Romanians still plot very close to Southern Balkans. If we look at the "purest" Romanian region, Wallachia, they are absolutely Southern Balkans-like:

Target: Romanian_Wallachia
Distance: 0.8446% / 0.84455235 | ADC: 0.25x
54.4 Bulgarian
39.2 Montenegrin
6.4 Moldovan

Target: Romanian_Wallachia
Distance: 0.9541% / 0.95408997 | ADC: 0.5x
51.8 Bulgarian
48.2 Montenegrin

Distance to: Romanian_Wallachia
2.43893419 Bulgarian
2.55589515 Montenegrin
4.54622921 NorthMacedonian
5.94602388 Serb
6.56044206 Moldovan
7.72176146 Serb_B&H
8.46880747 Bosniak
8.75619780 Kosovan
9.94625558 Albanian
10.21869855 Croat_B&H
12.14444729 Greek
13.34899996 Croat
14.43623566 Hungarian
16.08172876 Italian
16.64844437 Slovenian
17.69903387 Swiss_French
19.08426053 Austrian
19.30137042 Swiss_Italian
19.33007760 Slovak
19.92931760 Swiss_German
20.81712997 Corsican
21.01002380 Sicilian
21.33213070 Czech
24.16701471 German
24.18106697 Portuguese