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Thread: Viking myths busted

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    I have to object the idea that Norwegians and Swedes were only farmers and had only a few Vikings. I have seen that linguists, archaeologists and geneticists have a very different views about history, often "politically" driven. Archaeological evidences about Swedish and Norwegian Vikings, no matter how they are called, are undisputable. For instance found Viking swords in Norway and Sweden exceed what has been found in Denmark.
    Swedes from Götaland sailed West joining Danish and Norwegian Vikings. Those from Svealand(Roslagen) were Väringar and sailed east. Vikings are mentioned only in Western writings.

  2. #32
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    Looking forward to seeing the data of Orcadian Vikings with Pictish heritage.

    If we had combined this with the Irish study, would have been brilliant.

  3. #33
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    I noticed some of the samples in England have very high 'Southern European', 30-50%. I theorised before that this is a mostly Celtic signal, but we'll have to wait and see.

  4. #34
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    David has just posted these if anyone wants to have a look at them.

    Scaled

    Code:
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    Unscaled

    Code:
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    Viking:VK173,0.0094,0.0143,0.0181,0.0175,0.0142,0.0061,0.0041,-0.001,0.0112,-0.0025,-0.0063,0.0042,-0.0007,0.0021,0.0261,0.0047,-0.0071,0.004,0.0022,0.0065,0.0084,0.0019,0.0095,0.0224,0.0075
    Viking:VK174,0.011,0.0132,0.0178,0.0263,0.0123,0.0077,0.0047,0.0031,0.0075,-0.0148,-0.0014,0.0038,-0.0101,-0.0025,0.0142,0.0073,-0.0093,-0.0042,-0.0003,0.0049,0.01,-0.0033,0.0065,0.0213,0.0133
    Viking:VK175,0.0102,0.0136,0.0246,0.0268,0.0151,0.0037,0.0006,0.0024,0.01,-0.0211,-0.0005,0.0022,0.0041,-0.0045,0.014,0.0203,0.0009,-0.0151,0.0056,0.0188,0.0137,-0.003,0.0068,0.0143,0.0108
    Viking:VK176,0.0063,0.0129,0.0179,0.0222,0.0133,0.0072,-0.0043,0.0028,0.0084,-0.0121,-0.0043,0.0034,0.0003,0.0053,0.0268,-0.0033,-0.0177,-0.0065,0.0013,0,0.0081,-0.0038,0.0001,0.0091,0.0131
    Viking:VK177,0.0097,0.014,0.0146,0.0143,0.0131,0.0005,0.0057,0.0024,0.0053,-0.0034,-0.0026,0.0042,-0.0067,0.0001,0.0237,0.0113,0.0156,-0.0078,0.0001,0.0151,0.003,-0.0106,-0.0109,0.019,-0.0007
    Viking:VK178,0.01,0.0144,0.0155,0.0181,0.0115,0.0075,-0.0038,-0.0043,0.0092,-0.0058,0.0007,0.0054,-0.0049,-0.0022,0.0212,0.0039,-0.0065,-0.0058,0.0063,0.0066,0.0063,-0.0081,-0.0016,0.0109,0.0042
    Viking:VK179,0.0087,0.0121,0.0178,0.0241,0.0116,0.0075,0.0038,0.0034,0.0061,-0.0085,-0.0094,-0.0025,-0.0068,-0.0027,0.024,0.0178,0.0118,0.0022,0.0015,0.0111,0.0151,-0.0098,0.0027,0.0219,0.0105
    Viking:VK183,0.0127,0.015,0.0186,0.0226,0.0147,0.0102,-0.0022,-0.003,0.0066,-0.0155,-0.0093,0.0046,-0.007,0.0046,0.032,-0.01,-0.0164,-0.0086,-0.0008,0.0056,0.0039,0.0057,0.0015,0.0156,0.0013
    Viking:VK184,0.0094,0.0121,0.0188,0.0228,0.0121,0.0038,0.0026,-0.0017,0.0058,-0.0117,-0.0068,0.0049,-0.0068,0.0015,0.0187,-0.009,-0.0225,-0.0025,0.0018,0.0108,0.0184,0.0083,-0.0036,0.0114,0.0056
    Viking:VK186,0.0116,0.0145,0.0197,0.0236,0.0162,0.0066,0.0012,0.0012,0.0118,-0.0139,-0.001,0.0035,-0.0018,-0.0053,0.0296,0.0038,-0.0121,-0.002,0.0021,0.0039,0.0212,0.003,-0.0087,0.0158,0.0154
    Viking:VK187,0.0099,0.0126,0.0192,0.0184,0.0148,0.0013,0.0064,-0.002,0.0096,-0.0121,0.0005,0.0011,-0.0022,0.0017,0.0244,-0.0132,-0.0198,-0.0105,-0.0002,0.0033,0.0105,-0.0043,0.0134,0.0141,0.0077
    Viking:VK190,0.0053,0.0127,0.0125,0.0187,0.0109,0.008,0.0011,-0.0011,0.0047,-0.0128,0.0004,0.0033,-0.0061,-0.0019,0.0229,-0.0038,-0.0198,-0.0008,0.0091,0.0001,0.0037,0.0031,-0.0002,0.0153,-0.0027
    Viking:VK201,0.0099,0.0149,0.0141,0.0184,0.0147,0.0035,0.0001,-0.0028,0.0098,-0.0098,-0.0075,0.0033,-0.0142,-0.011,0.0297,-0.0076,-0.0247,-0.0071,0.0017,0.0046,0.0094,-0.004,-0.0075,0.0249,0.0126
    Viking:VK202,0.0098,0.0141,0.0123,0.0228,0.0127,0.0047,-0.0065,-0.004,0.0109,-0.0023,-0.0005,0.0095,-0.0075,-0.0067,0.0292,0.004,0.0021,-0.0012,-0.003,0.0036,0.01,-0.0031,-0.0024,0.0101,0.0133
    Viking:VK203,0.0097,0.0151,0.0154,0.0216,0.0097,0.0073,-0.0012,0.0011,0.0034,-0.0062,-0.0065,0.0077,-0.0041,-0.0022,0.0285,-0.007,-0.0243,0.0026,-0.0004,0.0115,-0.0018,0.0012,-0.0032,0.0149,0.0063
    Viking:VK204,0.0119,0.0136,0.0188,0.02,0.0174,0.0056,0.0079,-0.0006,0.0064,-0.0191,-0.0117,0.0088,-0.0088,-0.0054,0.0316,-0.0054,-0.0066,0.0049,0.003,0.01,0.0156,-0.0142,0.0011,0.017,0.0149
    Viking:VK205,0.011,0.0148,0.0186,0.0208,0.0083,0.0048,0.0013,-0.0017,0.0134,-0.0088,0.003,0.0011,-0.0014,-0.0064,0.0161,0.0019,-0.0125,-0.001,-0.0033,-0.0021,0.0161,0.0007,0.0007,0.015,0.0117
    Viking:VK207,0.012,0.0146,0.0165,0.018,0.0116,0.0027,0.0009,-0.0018,0.0074,-0.0095,-0.0057,0.0081,-0.0101,-0.0001,0.032,-0.0114,-0.0169,-0.0053,0.0022,0.0035,-0.0021,0.0027,-0.0013,0.0354,0.0105
    Viking:VK212,0.0121,0.0154,0.022,0.0305,0.015,0.01,0.0133,0.006,0.0138,-0.038,-0.0026,-0.0106,0.0362,0.051,-0.013,-0.0124,0.0076,0.0061,0.0007,-0.0007,-0.0057,-0.008,0.0194,-0.0027,0.0214
    Viking:VK214,0.0122,0.0123,0.0204,0.0349,0.0177,0.0081,0.0047,-0.0007,0.0094,-0.0287,0.0009,-0.0115,-0.0012,0.0048,0.0249,-0.0021,-0.0317,0.0206,0.0026,0.006,0.0217,-0.0053,0.0037,-0.0045,0.0216
    Viking:VK217,0.0129,0.0129,0.0153,0.0272,0.0119,0.005,0.0066,-0.012,0.0135,-0.025,0.0075,0.0061,0.0043,-0.006,0.023,0.0052,-0.0102,0.0095,0.0127,0.0124,0.0114,-0.0052,-0.015,-0.0013,0.0202
    Viking:VK218,0.0105,0.0159,0.0139,0.0138,0.0134,0.0062,0.0069,-0.0047,0.0106,-0.0076,-0.0022,0.003,-0.0073,-0.0081,0.0224,0.0115,-0.0097,-0.0053,-0.0017,0.0001,0.0051,0.001,0.0055,0.0102,0.0087
    Viking:VK219,0.0087,0.0125,0.0163,0.0204,0.0148,0.0083,-0.0001,0.0028,0.0089,-0.0151,-0.0097,0.0049,0.0036,0.0061,0.0189,0.0021,-0.0072,0.0011,0.0041,0.0002,0.0069,-0.0071,-0.0015,0.0168,0.0008
    I haven't looked at them in depth but what I found interesting for myself is that they replaced my Anglo-Saxon. Interested in what people find. These are not all of them as they are still in the process of trying to get good results with the downloads.

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    I saw they were low quality. So maybe will improve things. So a nice teaser.

    Viking:VK218 is an interesting one. Found in Russia, is R-L21 and probably a Briton going by the above data. Has a better pattern to it.



    Last edited by Graham; 09-20-2020 at 03:48 PM.

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    Something that was pointed out on Anthrogenica which is very interesting.



    From this, we can see the spread of ancestry during and around the Viking era:
    ● UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed to explore this further.
    ● The ‘Norway’ ancestry signal in the British Isles cannot be explained via Danish or AngloSaxon contribution. These fractions (4% in England, Scotland, and Ireland, 3% in Wales)
    likely correspond to the Norwegian Viking legacy in Britain.

    So they are differentiating Danish Vikings from Anglo-Saxons due to the Swedish signal in Danish Vikings. That's really interesting.

    There is a study coming out soon on Anglo-Saxon ancestry in the English so there should be plenty of Anglo-Saxons samples to look at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Something that was pointed out on Anthrogenica which is very interesting.



    From this, we can see the spread of ancestry during and around the Viking era:
    ● UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed to explore this further.
    ● The ‘Norway’ ancestry signal in the British Isles cannot be explained via Danish or AngloSaxon contribution. These fractions (4% in England, Scotland, and Ireland, 3% in Wales)
    likely correspond to the Norwegian Viking legacy in Britain.

    So they are differentiating Danish Vikings from Anglo-Saxons due to the Swedish signal in Danish Vikings. That's really interesting.

    There is a study coming out soon on Anglo-Saxon ancestry in the English so there should be plenty of Anglo-Saxons samples to look at.
    6% makes sense, about what I'd have expected, similar to Ireland. More in the North and East and less in the South and West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    6% makes sense, about what I'd have expected, similar to Ireland. More in the North and East and less in the South and West.
    They are saying that Ireland's 16% is possibly fully of Viking origin as is Scotland's. That would make sense because Ireland didn't get the Danish component from the Anglo-Saxons. England has a lot of Danish which looks like it is from Saxon ancestry mostly because of this difference in Swedish.

    There are more Anglo-Saxon samples needed to see if this is accurate but they state that "Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    6% makes sense, about what I'd have expected, similar to Ireland. More in the North and East and less in the South and West.
    Although Danish + Norwegian + (faux) Swedish could be closer to around 10% across Britain and Ireland.

    You would think most of the 16% Danish in Ireland and Scotland is Anglo-Saxon, especially Scotland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Although Danish + Norwegian + (faux) Swedish could be closer to around 10% across Britain and Ireland.

    You would think most of the 16% Danish in Ireland and Scotland is Anglo-Saxon, especially Scotland.
    It seems to be to do with this Swedish component and it is the more Sco/Irish cluster so not the Scots that cluster with the English.

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