The "most Germanic" among Celtic nations

[brennus dux gallorum]

I guess Scotland, but..apart from the welsh, Celtic peoples in general look pretty Germanic to me since well both Insular Celts and Germanic peoples derive much of their genetic ancestry from the Corded Ware culture of early Bronze age Europe which is why they're genetically very close to one another.

The question is kinda irrelevant to genetics.

Also Genetically they are close with each other due to lower non-steppe ancestry, something that would occur to any indoeuropean speaker without much neolithic or other similar kinds of admixture, regardless from being celtic, italic slavic germanic or whatever

[Kamal900]

The question is kinda irrelevant to genetics.

Also Genetically they are close with each other due to lower non-steppe ancestry, something that would occur to any indoeuropean speaker without much neolithic or other similar kinds of admixture, regardless from being celtic, italic slavic germanic or whatever

Well, we do have the genome from these ancient cultures, and they seem to be very close to each other and so on. As for the steppe ancestry, well, the Yamnaya culture weren't genetically fully European but rather somewhere between middle eastern and European, and that the proto-Indo-Iranians from the Sintashta culture of Eurasian steppe derive much of their ancestry from the Corded ware culture which is why the cluster with Insular Celts and Germanic peoples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintas...lture#Genetics

Well, genes does a play a role in your phenotype and so forth, so yeah.

[JamesBond007]

I guess Scotland, but..apart from the welsh, Celtic peoples in general look pretty Germanic to me since well both Insular Celts and Germanic peoples derive much of their genetic ancestry from the Corded Ware culture of early Bronze age Europe which is why they're genetically very close to one another.

He wasn't talking about phenotypes and genetics though. Both the Scottish and Welsh are similar in their Germanic genetic input on average 30% Anglo-Saxon with a large spread compared to 38% Germanic for the East English. There are no pure 'Celtic' people anymore at this point the distinctions are largely cultural. The Scottish etc... are only 'Celtic' relatively speaking to the Eastern English etc...in terms of genetics. I'm not sure about Irish genetics but I think modern Irish genetics are Norwegian and French Breton.

[Mingle]

It has been thoroughly colonised by England to the point where its individual identity is barely there.

Cornwall is just an English county. The whole "Corns are a nation" movement is some neo-revivalist thing based off the fact that it was the last English county where Celtic became extinct. But if you're going to call the entirely of Cornwall "Celtic" based it on it having a few speakers that lived until the 1700's, you may have as well do the same for Devon or even Cumberland. Also, in surveys on identity, most people from Cornwall identified as English first and British second (like the rest of England, barring London). It does have the largest percentage of people in England that also identify as Celtic though (but they're still a minority), probably a result of the neo-revivalist movement.

[Creoda]

Cornwall is just an English county. The whole "Corns are a nation" movement is some neo-revivalist thing based off the fact that it was the last English county where Celtic became extinct. But if you're going to call the entirely of Cornwall "Celtic" based it on it having a few speakers that lived until the 1700's, you may have as well do the same for Devon or even Cumberland. Also, in surveys on identity, most people from Cornwall identified as English first and British second (like the rest of England, barring London). It does have the largest percentage of people in England that also identify as Celtic though (but they're still a minority), probably a result of the neo-revivalist movement.

Somewhat true, Cornwall is England at the end of the day, but it's not just another county, it's unique among all England's counties. Was still Celtic until the early modern period, and retained a degree of political independence until the late Middle Ages I believe. Cornish surnames are also unique and recognisably different from English surnames.

Jeggo
Leggo
Bolitho
Chegwin
Nanscawen
Trescothick
Trelawny
Penberthy
Rescorla
Tremayne
Trevelyan
Trevithick
Penrose
Trevarthan
Ennis
Tredinnick
Baragwanath
Pascoe

etc

[PaleoEuropean]

Somewhat true, Cornwall is England at the end of the day, but it's not just another county, it's unique among all England's counties. Was still Celtic until the early modern period, and retained a degree of political independence until the late Middle Ages I believe. Cornish surnames are also unique and recognisably different from English surnames.

Jeggo
Leggo
Bolitho
Chegwin
Nanscawen
Trescothick
Trelawny
Penberthy
Rescorla
Tremayne
Trevelyan
Trevithick
Penrose
Trevarthan
Ennis
Tredinnick
Baragwanath
Pascoe

etc

Pascoe is probably the only popular one of those in the states, more so here in the South and Southwest.

[Creoda]

Pascoe is probably the only popular one of those in the states, more so here in the South and Southwest.

I think Cornish names are a little more common here, quite a few Cornish came out here, apparently even more than Welsh, which seems hard to believe.

Other Cornish names: Teague, Nankervis, Nance, Clemens (Mark Twain's real name, he had Cornish origins), Kitto, Bligh, Coon, Eddy, Negus, Olver. Hosking/Hoskings/Hoskins is also a name I associate with Cornwall.

"By Ine, Ros, Car, Lax, Pol and Pen, you well may know all Cornish men".

[Mingle]

Somewhat true, Cornwall is England at the end of the day, but it's not just another county, it's unique among all England's counties. Was still Celtic until the early modern period, and retained a degree of political independence until the late Middle Ages I believe. Cornish surnames are also unique and recognisably different from English surnames.

Jeggo
Leggo
Bolitho
Chegwin
Nanscawen
Trescothick
Trelawny
Penberthy
Rescorla
Tremayne
Trevelyan
Trevithick
Penrose
Trevarthan
Ennis
Tredinnick
Baragwanath
Pascoe

etc

Any info on Cornwall being Celtic-speaking to a significant degree until the early modern period? Just cause Celtic wasn't extinct doesn't mean that the county was mainly Celtic. I just know Cornish was spoken by a few individuals until the 1700s. In the 1600s, the villages in the far western part of Cornwall (Penwith) could have been majority Cornish-speaking I suppose.

I just looked up a bunch of those names on Forebears. For most of them, their incidences peak in English counties outside Cornwall. And the surnames that peak in Cornwall are also common outside Cornwall. So they're essentially Pan-English names now.

[JamesBond007]

Anyway, I don't think most Europeans know much about the Welsh and Scottish. So what foreigners don't realize is that mainland Scottish culture is Germanic including the language and that there are more sheep than people in the highlands. Lowland Scottish culture is Germanic not celtic so I'm not sure why Scotland is considered a Celtic nation I think it's only considered 'celtic' in order to differentiate it from England but logically it is not Celtic.

[Creoda]

Any info on Cornwall being Celtic-speaking to a significant degree until the early modern period? Just cause Celtic wasn't extinct doesn't mean that the county was mainly Celtic. I just know Cornish was spoken by a few individuals until the 1700s. In the 1600s, the villages in the far western part of Cornwall (Penwith) could have been majority Cornish-speaking I suppose.

I just looked up a bunch of those names on Forebears. For most of them, their incidences peak in English counties outside Cornwall. And the surnames that peak in Cornwall are also common outside Cornwall. So they're essentially Pan-English names now.

My point was that Cornwall is unique in that it only lost it's Celtic tongue a few hundred years ago, while the rest of England stopped being Celtic in the Early Middle Ages. Modern European nations including England were basically formed as ethno-linguistic entities during the Middle Ages, in which time Cornwall was still (majority) Celtic. That's why Cornwall still has it's own semi-national identity, it doesn't come from nothing.

Most of those names aren't pan-English at all, they're Cornish and they sound odd elsewhere in England. There's loads of Kelly's, McDonald's, Murphy's etc in England too, that doesn't make them pan-British/pan-British Isles names.

On the other hand lots of people think Hughes and Jones are Welsh names because they're most common there, but they're equally English and Welsh. Edwards is another that is considered Welsh despite obviously being of English origin.