Have you heard of Kurdistan

[Halgurd]

It may seem like wishful thinking now but until the regime collapses we won’t know. The Iranians of today are much more heterogeneous and the new state will surely be built on a multi ethnic foundation.

Historical lands don’t mean much. Kurds live there, so they can call it theirs fine. But so do Azeris. The majority of West Azerbaijan province in terms of population is Azeri. Do you disagree? If not, what’s the argument here?

Kurds of turkey, Iraq and Syria haven’t been part of the Iranian state for centuries at this point so I don’t blame their ignorance towards the subject. And I wouldn’t blame them for not missing the Lion and Sun either, considering their overlords were the main rival of the Iranian nation. I guess I should also thank Azeris for being the first line of defense when they tried to take it down.

According to what data is West Azerbaijan majority ethnic Turk? How many people from Azerbayjani Gharb have you actually met?

Don't thank the Azeris. After all, they were (and still are) your overlords. They should be thanking you for your loyalty. If it wasn't for them, Iran would not be the Iran of today.

[EternalYouth]

I have heard the term Kurdistan before, yes.

[Halgurd]

(1910) published by Royal Geographic Society. It isn't exactly the same as today, but there are no recent ethnic census available. Armenians and Assyrians used to be a sizeable population. Turks have moved into Urmia and changed the demographics there. Other than that, it is clear the province has always been majority Kurdish.

[Dr_Maul]

According to what data is West Azerbaijan majority ethnic Turk? How many people from Azerbayjani Gharb have you actually met?

Don't thank the Azeris. After all, they were (and still are) your overlords. They should be thanking you for your loyalty. If it wasn't for them, Iran would not be the Iran of today.

Ourmieh itself consists of at least a third of the whole province and it is definitely primarily Azeri. Also Kyp posted a map here which itself states its 75% Azeri roughly, though I am not sure how exact it is. The highest density areas in terms of population are normally Azeri

And like I said, I can only be grateful that Azeris were the first line of defense. I have no issues with Azeris, Turks, Turkics, or anyone to be honest. Although I can see why certain people would have their personal complexes towards them, I view them from the Iranian lens which is positively for the most part. After all, Persianate civilization was spread by the Turkish sword.

I view these things from a broader National perspective, which I understand might not be available to everyone...

[Halgurd]

Ourmieh itself consists of at least a third of the whole province and it is definitely primarily Azeri. Also Kyp posted a map here which itself states its 75% Azeri roughly, though I am not sure how exact it is. The highest density areas in terms of population are normally Azeri

And like I said, I can only be grateful that Azeris were the first line of defense. I have no issues with Azeris, Turks, Turkics, or anyone to be honest. Although I can see why certain people would have their personal complexes towards them, I view them from the Iranian lens which is positively for the most part. After all, Persianate civilization was spread by the Turkish sword.

I view these things from a broader National perspective, which I understand might not be available to everyone...

Yeah... just as I thought. No data.

I am not here to argue or discuss your personal loyalty to your homeland, that is to be expected after all. However, I don't like to make statements or pull data out of my ass.

[happycow]

No

[Dr_Maul]

Yeah... just as I thought. No data.

I am not here to argue or discuss your personal loyalty to your homeland, that is to be expected after all. However, I don't like to make statements or pull data out of my ass.

Well, what are yours?

[Zoro]

It may seem like wishful thinking now but until the regime collapses we won’t know. The Iranians of today are much more heterogeneous and the new state will surely be built on a multi ethnic foundation.

Kurds of turkey, Iraq and Syria haven’t been part of the Iranian state for centuries at this point so I don’t blame their ignorance towards the subject. And I wouldn’t blame them for not missing the Lion and Sun either, considering their overlords were the main rival of the Iranian nation. I guess I should also thank Azeris for being the first line of defense when they tried to take it down.

Well the Kurds are the Iranians and have always been for thousands of years. The Kurds have historically had a big role in Iranian leadership and military and fighting invaders. We can go back to the Safavids or even 1000s of years to the Medes and before. I believe Halgurd's frustration is towards the Iranian government and not the various ethnic groups within Iran. As a whole most Persians and other ethnic groups like Kurds and visa versa within Iran.

You mention the Lion and Sun. Well that flag was also the flag of the Safavid dynasty who were originally Kurdish. So historically Kurds have always played an integral part in Iranian leadership, whether Karim Khan Zand, Safavids, and others. So Iran wouldn't be the Iran of today without Kurds. In Safavid times not only Kurds but Pashtuns were also loyal to the Persian rulers.. What screwed things up and forced Pashtuns to seperate from Iran was the last Safavid ruler Sultan Husain who was an immature selfish leader who didn't care about other groups and the idiot Gerogian George XI of Kartli (who renamed himself Gurgin Khan and was appointed governor of Kandahar). So you had Gurgin who abused Pashtuns and Sultan Husain who didn't give a shit about Pashtuns. That's what caused Pashtuns under Mirwais to rebel and create an Afghanistan seperate from Persia. I guess this should be a lesson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty

The Safavid dynasty (/ˈsæfəvɪd, ˈsɑː-/; Persian: دودمان صفوی‎, romanized: Dudmâne Safavi,[1] pronounced [d̪uːd̪ˈmɒːne sæfæˈviː]) was one of the most significant ruling dynasties of Iran from 1501 to 1736.[2] The Safavid dynasty had its origin in the Safavid order of Sufism, which was established in the city of Ardabil in the Iranian Azerbaijan region. It was an Iranian dynasty of Kurdish origin,[3] but during their rule they intermarried with Turkoman,[4] Georgian,[5] Circassian,[6][7] and Pontic Greek[8] dignitaries

The Safavids ruled from 1501 to 1722 (experiencing a brief restoration from 1729 to 1736) and, at their height, they controlled all of what is now Iran, Azerbaijan Republic, Bahrain, Armenia, eastern Georgia, parts of the North Caucasus, Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan, as well as parts of Turkey, Syria, Pakistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

[Dr_Maul]

Well the Kurds are the Iranians and have always been for thousands of years. The Kurds have historically had a big role in Iranian leadership and military and fighting invaders. We can go back to the Safavids or even 1000s of years to the Medes and before. I believe Halgurd's frustration is towards the Iranian government and not the various ethnic groups within Iran. As a whole most Persians and other ethnic groups like Kurds and visa versa within Iran.

You mention the Lion and Sun. Well that flag was also the flag of the Safavid dynasty who were originally Kurdish. So historically Kurds have always played an integral part in Iranian leadership, whether Karim Khan Zand, Safavids, and others. So Iran wouldn't be the Iran of today without Kurds. In Safavid times not only Kurds but Pashtuns were also loyal to the Persian rulers.. What screwed things up and forced Pashtuns to seperate from Iran was the last Safavid ruler Sultan Husain who was an immature selfish leader who didn't care about other groups and the idiot Gerogian George XI of Kartli (who renamed himself Gurgin Khan and was appointed governor of Kandahar). So you had Gurgin who abused Pashtuns and Sultan Husain who didn't give a shit about Pashtuns. That's what caused Pashtuns under Mirwais to rebel and create an Afghanistan seperate from Persia. I guess this should be a lesson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty

The word Iranian needs to be distinguished as either Ethnolinguistic or National, right now it is causing too many problems
I agree with your points here, and I obviously do not doubt the Iranianness of Pashtuns and Kurds in an Ethnolinguistic sense
What you have to realize is that the current nation is a centralized one based around various cultural hotspots and their proxies as a result of aggressive imperialism of the Ottomans, British and Russians. Under Eranshahr, Kurds, Persians, Pashtuns etc. could be considered one. But we do not live in that country, we live in Iran. Even before the collapse of the Safavi, you have to realize that the Kurds of Iraq and Syria were lost to the Ottomans forever. And after Chaldiran, the direct predecessor of the current Iranian (national) identity was born. And since then it is probably safe to say that the groups within Iran drew closer, and those outside of it grew farther away, Iranic or not. in fact, I would wager that this separation occurred even before.
I don't see any Iranian kurd differently than anyone else, and you are right that without Karim Khan or the Safavieh then Iran would be different. Note that both of them came from Azerbaijan and Fars respectively, in the heartland. My only point is that the Ottoman Kurds and Afghans have diverged from Iran many years ago.

[Zoro]

Iran and the Persian empire has existed for a very long time. I think a multi-ethnic Iran can be good for every Iranian as long as all groups are treated fairly and their is equitable representation in government. There is something to be said for a unified large Iran vs a bunch of small countries within Iran. The advantages of a large unified Iran could be military power as well as overall greater prosperity. and greater access to resources I mean some of the provinces Iran are desert wastelands so if the groups living in those areas had their independent country what kind of resources would they have access to run their government.

After all unified large Iran or Persian empire has managed to exist in the past. The key is equal rights and representation in government and a decent foreign policy.

As far as treatment of Kurds in general within the past century, I believe Kurds in Iran fared better than Kurds in Iraq or Turkey ( Turkey's solution to Kurds has been to deny their existence and call them mountain Kurds and not allow them to wear their ethnic clothes or speak their language), In Iraq Kurds were in a very position with Saddam. So they fared better in Iran. This partly has to do with closer historical linguistic, cultural, and genetic ties as well recognition of Kurd role in Iranian deep history.