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Thread: What would England be like if it wasn't for the Norman invasion?

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    Default What would England be like if it wasn't for the Norman invasion?

    If the Normans didn't invade back in the 11th century and William the Conqueror wasn't installed as the first king of England, how would the nation evolve? Was the Norman invasion decisive in making England in the following centuries a leading power in Europe and then, in the entire world? Would it have the same fate today if only Anglo-Saxons remained?
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    Possibly the British Empire would not exist and England would be more culturally similar to the Norse countries and Netherlands.

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    Genetically (just to pick one topic), the English would actually probably plot slightly more northward than today. The Norman component is likely dwarfed by the Anglo-Frisian and Brythonic stuff. I have seen some compelling words online lately that a small Norman component in the English is pulling them more southerly than other Brits/Irish due to EEF-rich Ghaulish substrates.
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    The British Isles would be more fragmented I imagine, with Goidelic Celtic cultures in Ireland and much of Scotland having a clear amount of isolation from Anglo Saxon cultures south and east as well as Brythonic cultures in Wales and Cornwall having less interaction. England would probably still be quite a desirable and affluent place in relation to the rest of Europe but it wouldn't have as much political value potentially.

    Theres bound to be more differences, I just cant think of many right now.

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    A lot more benign, the Normans seemed to have a hyper aggressive culture and this became the new elite, the expansion - Wales, Ireland Scotland, would not have happened, nor the endless wars with France.

    I suspect it would have had a more defensive, inward looking and just getting on with things. I think Tolkien thought losing this mentality was a disaster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CordedWhelp View Post
    Genetically (just to pick one topic), the English would actually probably plot slightly more northward than today. The Norman component is likely dwarfed by the Anglo-Frisian and Brythonic stuff. I have seen some compelling words online lately that a small Norman component in the English is pulling them more southerly than other Brits/Irish due to EEF-rich Ghaulish substrates.
    I doubt it, far more likely due to earlier Continental Celts and possibly Romans. Normans have what, 5% more EEF than Insular Celts/North Dutch? Even if they replaced 10% of the population of Southern England (which would be pretty radical for their numbers) it would barely register. Normans also conquered Wales and Ireland. Norman origin names are just as ubiquitous in Ireland, and their genetic influence there could have been as much or greater due to the smaller population. Also many of the Norman invading contingent were Bretons and Flemish, more Northern shifted than North French, as well as Norse.

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