North Italians

[princeton90]

Do you think that North Italians are white-washed on anthrofora? They plot slightly more southern and eastern than Spaniards but it is told that North Italians are lighter than Spaniards. How can it be when North Italians are slightly more southern and eastern than Spaniards?

[Samnium]

It depends. There are many Northern Italians that do plot more southern than Spaniards, but also many that plot as Northern or even more than most Spaniards.

There are two profiles : one is Tuscan-shifted, the other that correspond to Piemonte, Veneto, Friuli Venezia Giulia, Trentino area... is on par with Spaniards definitely. And Aostans are French in genetics so it's not even close.

Phenotypically, I think most of N.Italian regions are close to Northern/Western Spain pigmentation numbers, even if I believe a little bit lighter. There are outliers too : Sud Tyrol, Aosta etc. that are as a whole definitely lighter than Spaniards but they are a "minority" (I put " " because Sud Tyrol has many inhabitants).

[Avgvstvs]

Genetics=/ phenotypes

North italians plot very very near iberians...and tuscans are close to north italians

Northern Italy has more light eyes and nordish types than spain but on average there is no difference whatsoever....blonde hair is the same in Italy and spain

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[Parça do Neymar]

Gene expression and the concept of phenotypes sometimes don't tell the whole story. I don't know if North Italians are lighter than the Spaniards or not, but it's possible for a southern-shifted population to be lighter than a northern-shifted one (or vice-versa) depending on the observable physical traits of their founding populations.

I feel like this isn't going to end well, we only need the presence of some key members here.

[Samnium]

Genetics=/ phenotypes

North italians plot very very near iberians...and tuscans are close to north italians

Northern Italy has more light eyes and nordish types than spain but on average there is no difference whatsoever....blonde hair is the same in Italy and spain

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There are two distinct profiles, but yes, usually they plot near.

I think people don't understand that Northern Italy isn't Central Europe, atleast genetically.

You do a parallel comparison with French living at the same latitude or Slovenians, and you will see a big difference in blonde hair, light eyes, phenotypes etc.

People need to visit places like Liguria where people aren't really lighter than Spaniards. Or southern Lombardy.

[Avgvstvs]

There are two distinct profiles, but yes, usually they plot near.

I think people don't understand that Northern Italy isn't Central Europe, atleast genetically.

You do a parallel comparison with French living at the same latitude or Slovenians, and you will see a big difference in blonde hair, light eyes, phenotypes etc.

I'm aware of the profiles,but Tuscans themselves don't plot far away from iberians...south italians do

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[Samnium]

I'm aware of the profiles,but Tuscans themselves don't plot far away from iberians...south italians do

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Tuscans are close yes. In my opinion, atleast Northern Tuscans, are within the SW Euro cluster even if a bit of a "fringe".

I don't think that people from Massa-Carrara are very different from Ligurians, neither Pistoians from Emilians.

On PCA Northern Tuscans plot with these people (usually).

The reason why Tuscany isn't really in the Northern Italian cluster is because Central Tuscany and Southern is a lot more "Central Italian" shifted, Grosseto, Livorno, Arezzo... And it's logical.

[Avgvstvs]

Tuscans are close yes. In my opinion, atleast Northern Tuscans, are within the SW Euro cluster even if a bit of a "fringe".

I don't think that people from Massa-Carrara are very different from Ligurians, neither Pistoians from Emilians.

On PCA Northern Tuscans plot with these people (usually).

The reason why Tuscany isn't really in the Northern Italian cluster is because Central Tuscany and Southern is a lot more "Central Italian" shifted, Grosseto, Livorno, Arezzo...

My paternal family is from Mugello,Prato and Pistoia...my father did a long research and his paternal family traces back to Prato area in XVI century. Would you consider them Northern italian like?

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[Samnium]

My paternal family is from Mugello,Prato and Pistoia...my father did a long research and his paternal family traces back to Prato area in XVI century. Would you consider them Northern italian like?

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It's called Central Italy, but in reality, this part of Tuscany is much closer in all aspects to Emilia-Romagna that's a Northern Italian region.

I would say it's the fringe of Northern Italy, because it's the beginning of Etrurian lands and the ending of Celtic one.

And for example, "Padanian" independantists consider Northern Tuscany as part of Northern Italy if I'm not mistaken.

[Deusex99]

Phenotypes are controlled by a small subset of SNPs, unlike ancestry. Phenotypes can change quickly in few generations thanks to sexual selection for example, while the ancestry remains the same.

Regarding the pigmentation, there are several studies on this subject. One example this one found the percentage of light/mixed eyes to be 40,8% in North Italy and 22,5% in Spain.



Source: DNA-based eye colour prediction across Europe with the IrisPlex system.