North Italians

**Samnium** · 10-19-2020, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Deusex99

Phenotypes are controlled by a small subset of SNPs, unlike ancestry. Phenotypes can change quickly in few generations thanks to sexual selection for example, while the ancestry remains the same.

Regarding the pigmentation, there are several studies on this subject. One example this one found the percentage of light/mixed eyes to be 40,8% in North Italy and 22,5% in Spain.

Source: DNA-based eye colour prediction across Europe with the IrisPlex system.

North-Western France darker than Northern Italy is simply not possible.

I have old anthropological numbers, in these departements, the number of light eyes was close to 80% in the beginning of the 20th century.

And genetically people from Seine-Maritime, la Manche, Britanny... are very close to Brits, Dutch, Belgians genetically, and not too far from Scandinavians even if definitely more "EEF" influenced for average NW Euro.

**Deusex99** · 10-19-2020, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Samnium

North-Western France darker than Northern Italy is simply not possible.

I have old anthropological numbers, in these departements, the number of light eyes was close to 80% in the beginning of the 20th century.

And genetically people from Seine-Maritime, la Manche, Britanny... are very close to Brits, Dutch, Belgians genetically, and not too far from Scandinavians even if definitely more "EEF" influenced for average NW Euro.

The samples from France includes immigrants according to the study. The other ones are only natives.

**Samnium** · 10-19-2020, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Deusex99

The samples from France includes immigrants according to the study. The other ones are only natives.

Then it makes sense.

And if you see the map from 1930, you will soon understand that lightness numbers have fallen in pretty much all France

**Avgvstvs** · 10-19-2020, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Samnium

It's called Central Italy, but in reality, this part of Tuscany is much closer in all aspects to Emilia-Romagna that's a Northern Italian region.

I would say it's the fringe of Northern Italy, because it's the beginning of Etrurian lands and the ending of Celtic one.

And for example, "Padanian" independantists consider Northern Tuscany as part of Northern Italy if I'm not mistaken.

Lega Nord's goofy concept of non existent Padania included Umbria and Marche,so...

Well,Emilia was also very Etruscan before the Celts came.... Pistoia,Prato,Lucca,Massa‐Carrara and probably Firenze as well are likely more Northern genetically than Rimini and Pesaro,who received Senones(celtic) invasion and still speak Gallo‐italic dialects nowadays.....so it depends if we consider Northern itay in terms of genetics or in terms of language and culture....

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**Samnium** · 10-19-2020, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Avgvstvs

Lega Nord's goofy concept of non existent Padania included Umbria and Marche,so...

Well,Emilia was also very Etruscan before the Celts came.... Pistoia,Prato,Lucca,Massa‐Carrara and probably Firenze as well are likely more Northern genetically than Rimini and Pesaro,who received Senones(celtic) invasion and still speak Gallo‐italic dialects nowadays.....so it depends if we consider Northern itay in terms of genetics or in terms of language and culture....

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Romagnoli plot more southern, wonder why, Byzantine influence ? Probably. So I agree with what you've said, it's what I've seen in PCAs.

To me Northern Italy is mainly genetically/phenotypically because culturally, I see hardly any similarity between Piemonte and Friuli Venezia Giulia.

**Chaos One** · 10-19-2020, 05:39 PM

Finally some people here dissociating pure "Background numbers" from proper SNPs regarding appearance. At some degree your background will influence on your lookings, however there's no proper rule about it.

**Avgvstvs** · 10-19-2020, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Samnium

Romagnoli plot more southern, wonder why, Byzantine influence ? Probably. So I agree with what you've said, it's what I've seen in PCAs.

Who knows....maybe,but i don't really know if during the Byzantine domination there was some immigration from the east to Romagna or if it was just a military occupation.

Toscana has a fair amount of lighter people as well....

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**Samnium** · 10-19-2020, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Avgvstvs

Who knows....maybe,but i don't really know if during the Byzantine domination there was some immigration from the east to Romagna or if it was just a military occupation.

Toscana has a fair amount of lighter people as well....

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Yes, one example was Franco Zefirelli.

**Avgvstvs** · 10-19-2020, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Samnium

Yes, one example was Franco Zefirelli.

Yep

Also on its shore(mostly Livorno and Grosseto)you can find many light pigmented people

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**Samnium** · 10-19-2020, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Avgvstvs

Yep

Also on its shore(mostly Livorno and Grosseto)you can find many light pigmented people

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I've seen it a bit in Livorno (well between Livorno and Piombino) but not Grosseto. Grosseto are closer to Lazians imo.

In Livorno province people weren't dark, definitely not.

I've spent my last holidays near Cecina if you know. Close to Volterra.