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Thread: Eye and hair colour distribution among 1144 Portuguese (both sexes studied)

  1. #111
    Veteran Member Cristiano viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Cristiano viejo's statistical ignorance strikes again.
    The thing is clear: if you claim that XP "study" is legitime, then be coherent and admit Spaniards are lighter than Romanians, that Slovenians are lighter than Irish or that Greeks are darker than Turks.

    BE COHERENT, MY FRIEND
    Espaa para los espaoles! Spain for the Spaniards!

  2. #112
    Veteran Member Supercomputer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    The thing is clear: if you claim that XP "study" is legitime, then be coherent and admit Spaniards are lighter than Romanians, that Slovenians are lighter than Irish or that Greeks are darker than Turks.

    BE COHERENT, MY FRIEND
    In hair colour, yes, but not in eye colour. Greeks are darker than Turks only in one map out of four.
    Last edited by Supercomputer; 11-24-2022 at 03:03 PM.

  3. #113
    Veteran Member Cristiano viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    In hair colour, yes, but not in eye colour. Greeks are darker than Turks only in one map out of four.
    Where is the XP "study" about eye colour?
    Espaa para los espaoles! Spain for the Spaniards!

  4. #114
    Veteran Member Supercomputer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    Where is the XP "study" about eye colour?
    You said Spaniards are lighter than Romanians and Slovenians are lighter than Irish. I'm saying this may be the case but only in hair colour.

  5. #115
    Veteran Member Cristiano viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    You said Spaniards are lighter than Romanians and Slovenians are lighter than Irish. I'm saying this may be the case but only in hair colour.
    I did nothing. You are the greatest defender of XP "study", which is about hair colour and if anything, about facial features. Not about eye colour.

    So it is you who claims that in terms of hair colour Slovenians are lighter than Irish and Spaniards than Romanians

    Time to post some stupid new "study" about eye colour based in the personal observations of God knows who.
    Espaa para los espaoles! Spain for the Spaniards!

  6. #116
    Veteran Member Supercomputer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    I did nothing. You are the greatest defender of XP "study", which is about hair colour and if anything, about facial features. Not about eye colour.

    So it is you who claims that in terms of hair colour Slovenians are lighter than Irish and Spaniards than Romanians

    Time to post some stupid new "study" about eye colour based in the personal observations of God knows who.
    Yes you did say that, I was simply correcting you. You used the term "lighter" not "blonder". Lighter implies BOTH hair and eyes. I simply said that just because they may be lighter in hair colour that does not mean they're lighter in general, because you also have to look at eyes.

    I never posted any illegitimate study. Just because you don't like what Hoyos Sainz study says about Spaniard eye colour does not mean it's incorrect. Sanchez Fernander study gives us almost the same results (16-17% blue and grey eyes) as well as the new study posted by sofiagris which also gives 16% blue and grey eyes.

  7. #117
    Veteran Member Cristiano viejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Yes you did say that, I was simply correcting you. You used the term "lighter" not "blonder". Lighter implies BOTH hair and eyes. I simply said that just because they may be lighter in hair colour that does not mean they're lighter in general, because you also have to look at eyes.

    I never posted any illegitimate study. Just because you don't like what Hoyos Sainz study says about Spaniard eye colour does not mean it's incorrect. Sanchez Fernander study gives us almost the same results (16-17% blue and grey eyes) as well as the new study posted by sofiagris which also gives 16% blue and grey eyes.
    I dont like any "study", to start because these are not proper studies but simple observations of someone. I have my own observations, so I just need to put it in a paper to say it is a study

    This being said, I think that you think I disagree with everything you people post, and it is not so. I do agree in these data about +-30% of light eyes in Spain. But unlike you I dont think this is so because other told me but for my own experience. This is why I always say you that you need to travel to Romania, to live your own experience.

    Less Coon and more personal views, boy.
    Espaa para los espaoles! Spain for the Spaniards!

  8. #118
    Veteran Member Supercomputer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    I dont like any "study", to start because these are not proper studies but simple observations of someone. I have my own observations, so I just need to put it in a paper to say it is a study

    This being said, I think that you think I disagree with everything you people post, and it is not so. I do agree in these data about +-30% of light eyes in Spain. But unlike you I dont think this is so because other told me but for my own experience. This is why I always say you that you need to travel to Romania, to live your own experience.

    Less Coon and more personal views, boy.
    Experience is overrated and invalid. Unless you count your personal impression could be waaay off. I can tell you that when I did a study of German parliament for example, my personal impression was that Germans were reaaallly dark eyed much more than I expected. But when I actually counted it at the end, It was still 69% light eyes.

  9. #119
    Veteran Member Supercomputer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade View Post
    While progressing with my study of Estonians, I managed to finish that of the Portuguese.
    A few words for those who may not be aware of my criteria:
    This is the hair colour scale I use:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fische...93Saller_scale
    Colours A to O are what I count as blond.
    The numbers V and VI reflect reddish blond hair and affect both blondism and rufosity values. Deeper orange shades I also include as reddish blond.
    Other colours my statistics cover:
    - light brown
    - medium brown (including medium ash brown nuances)
    - dark brown (again including some dark ash brown forms)
    - black
    - reddish brown
    - pure red
    To estimate the eye colours distribution I use the Martin-Schultz scale. Green eyes with brown spots when green dominates I count as light. Evenly mixed green-brown shades and such where brown dominates I consider hazel and don't count as light.
    The Martin-Schultz scale includes:
    1-2 : blue iris (1a, 1b, 1c, 2a : light blue iris - 2b : darker blue iris)
    3 : blue-gray iris
    4 : gray iris (4a, 4b)
    5 : blue-gray iris with yellow/brown spots
    6 : gray-green iris with yellow/brown spots
    7 : green iris
    8 : green iris with yellow/brown spots
    9-10-11 : light-brown and hazel iris
    12-13 : medium brown iris
    14-15-16 : dark-brown and black iris
    My source:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin...3Schultz_scale
    Colours 1-8 I consider light. 9 is where non-light eyes begin for me.
    An image illustrating the Martin-Schultz scale:

    Additional info about my sampling method and criteria
    Although I had a good idea about differences between Spanish and Portuguese names and surnames I decided to educate myself more on this matter and found this source pretty useful:
    https://www.quora.com/Do-Portuguese-...anish-speakers
    My females' study is based on actresses, singers and models. Males' survey is based on models, singers, footballers and cyclists. Here are the links:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...uese_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...uese_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Jo%C3%A3o_Bastos
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...uese_actresses
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B3nia_Balac%C3%B3
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susana_Mendes
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...es_from_Lisbon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...film_actresses
    https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Santos_(atriz)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...tage_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...sion_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...oice_actresses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...female_singers
    http://www.lagence.pt/eng/results.ph...al&type=female
    http://www.lagence.pt/results.php?de...cial&type=male
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...e_male_singers
    https://www.metal-archives.com/artis...o_Ribeiro/7139
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...al_footballers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego..._male_cyclists
    https://www.elitelisbon.com/pt/modelos/nacional/?pg=4
    http://www.centralmodels.pt/modelos/homens/
    https://www.bestmodelsagency.com/en/...al-models/man/
    Note: All female models hail from LAgence Models - Commercial division. Male models are mostly from it, too, with some representing Elite Lisbon (National division), Central Portugal and Best Models (again the National group). No female models from the latter three were used, as I had already finished my survey of ladies.
    Needless to say I excluded all people of partial or full Sub-Saharan African ancestry regardless of their pigmentation. Blacks, mulattos/mulattas, quadroons and octaroons (including some blond and light-eyed ones) can be found in lists posted but neither of them became part of my work. Everyone counted with natural hair colours. The agencies had posted info about/tried to determine some of the models' eye and hair colour. While mostly agreeing with their definitions, I had a slightly different rate in certain cases. Some eyes simply listed as blue, grey or green I treated as light-mixed (blue-green, green-grey or blue-grey). One agency had completely forgotten about the term ''hazel'' listing some eyes that fit this type in my view as ''brown'' or ''green''. I adapted these to my perception. Regarding hair colour I can think of two men dubbed ''blond'' who to me and by the Fischer-Saller scale are clearly brown-haired (there have always been such cases in my surveys). 572 people of each sex were included. Most of them are fully Portuguese with no data of foreign ancestry. Some, however, have partial roots from other states such as England, Germany, The Netherlands, France, Armenia, etc.
    I saw several cases of partial heterochromia (blue-brown or grey-brown eyes). As the light colour did not dominate, these fall into the dark-mixed and dark category to me. One man displays complete heterochromia, having one blue eye and one brown eye. His share to the total result was split between blue and brown eyes.
    I start with ladies' results:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue 87 (15,21%)
    Blue-green 2 (0,35%)
    Blue-grey 28 (4,9%)
    Grey-green 43 (7,52%)
    Grey 65 (11,36%)
    Green 86 (15,04%)
    Blue-brown 3 (0,52%)
    Grey-brown 3 (0,52%)
    Hazel 118 (20,63%)
    Amber 5 (0,87%)
    Brown 128 (22,38%)
    Black 4 (0,7%)
    Light eyes total: 54,38% (311 women)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes total: 45,62% (261 ladies)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes rate: 20,46% (117 women)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes rate: 23,82% (136 women)

    Hair colour distribution:
    Blonde 114 (19,93%)
    Reddish blonde 25 (4,37%)
    Red 8 (1,4%)
    Reddish brown 19 (3,32%)
    Light brown 70 (12,24%)
    Medium brown 118 (20,63%)
    Medium ash brown 76 (13,28%)
    Dark brown 68 (11,89%)
    Dark ash brown 58 (10,14%)
    Black 16 (2,8%)
    Total blondism value: 24,3% (139 women)
    Total rufosity share: 9,09% (52 ladies)
    Brown hair total: 71,5% (409 women)
    Medium brown shades percentage (including ashy tones): 33,91% (194 women)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 22,03% (126 females)
    Dark hair total (with black included): 24,83% (142 females)

    Males' results:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue 79,5 (13,9%) - the complete heterochromia case
    Blue-green 25 (4,37%)
    Blue-grey 27 (4,72%)
    Grey-green 32 (5,59%)
    Grey 21 (3,67%)
    Green 69 (12,06%)
    Blue-brown 1 (0,18%)
    Grey-brown 2 (0,35%)
    Hazel 140 (24,48%)
    Brown 165,5 (28,93%) - the complete heterochromia case
    Black 10 (1,75%)
    Light eyes total: 44,31% (253 men and one with complete heterochromia)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes share: 55,69% (318 men and one with complete heterochromia)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes value: 22,99% (131 men + the guy with full heterochromia)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes total: 13,98% (80 men)



    Hair colour distribution:
    Blond 28 (4,9%)
    Reddish blond 6 (1,05%)
    Red 5 (0,87%)
    Reddish brown 7 (1,22%)
    Light brown 44 (7,69%)
    Medium brown 80 (13,99%)
    Medium ash brown 72 (12,59%)
    Dark brown 195 (34,09%)
    Dark ash brown 77 (13,46%)
    Black 58 (10,14%)
    Total blondism value: 5,95% (34 men)
    Total rufosity share: 3,14% (18 men)
    Brown hair total: 83,04% (475 men)
    Medium brown shades (including ashy tones): 26,58% (152 men)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 47,55% (272 men)
    Dark hair total (with black included): 57,69% (330 men)

    Average results based on both sexes:
    Eye colour distribution:
    Blue 166,5 (14,55%) - because of complete heterochromia
    Blue-green 27 (2,36%)
    Blue-grey 55 (4,81%)
    Grey-green 75 (6,56%)
    Grey 86 (7,52%)
    Green 155 (13,55%)
    Blue-brown 4 (0,35%)
    Grey-brown 5 (0,44%)
    Hazel 258 (22,55%)
    Amber 5 (0,44%)
    Brown 293,5 (25,65%) complete heterochromia guy being the reason
    Black 14 (1,22%)
    Light eyes total: 49,35% (564 people + one with full heterochromia)
    Dark/dark-mixed eyes rate: 50,65% (579 people + one with full heterochromia)
    Blue and blue-mixed light eyes share: 21,72% (248 individuals and a man with complete heterochromia)
    Grey and grey-mixed light eyes share: 18,89% (216 people)

    Hair colour distribution:
    Blonde/blond 142 (12,41%)
    Reddish blonde/blond 31 (2,71%)
    Red 13 (1,14%)
    Reddish brown 26 (2,27%)
    Light brown 114 (9,96%)
    Medium brown 198 (17,31%)
    Medium ash brown 148 (12,94%)
    Dark brown 263 (22,99%)
    Dark ash brown 135 (11,8%)
    Black 74 (6,47%)
    Total blondism value: 15,12% (173 individuals)
    Rufosity total: 6,12% (70 people)
    Brown hair total: 77,27% (884 people)
    Medium brown shades (including ashy tones): 30,25% (346 people)
    Dark brown shades (including ashy nuances): 34,79% (398 individuals)
    Dark hair total (with black included): 41,26% (472 people)

    Phenotypical and pigmentation comment

    The phenotypes I've seen in largest amount among the Portuguese both in my survey and in reality are Atlanto-Mediterranids and Nordo-Mediterranids/Atlantids. There is a good amount of Nordids (Hallstatt, Corded and Keltic types all being present), various kinds of Nordocromagnids (Tronder and so-called Anglo-Saxon) and Upper Paleolithic types (Brunn, Phalian, Borreby). Gracile Mediterranid is less common than its more robust Atlantic cousin, yet not rare. In my survey it was best displayed by footballers although Atlanto-CM and Berid traits dominated. Some Portuguese show Paleo Atlantid features. While less common than in Spain, a Baskid strain exists. 4 or 5 women with completely Portuguese names showed a blend of East Mediterranid and CM features approaching an Egyptid type. While not common, Dinarids, Dinaro-Meds and Norids can be found. A very small number of people showed Pontid and Dinaro-Pontid traits. One person with a completely Portuguese name displayed some Turanid admix. The Portuguese seem mainly orthocranic, with hypsicranic and chamaecranic individuals being less common. Hair texture is mainly straight followed by wavy and curly. Also, many men with otherwise brown or blond hair have red/reddish beards.
    Portuguese of both sexes scored as only slightly darker-eyed than their Southern French counterparts (54,38% vs. 56% among women and 44,31% vs. 46,4% among men). However, France when considered as a whole with the northern parts included scored as 58% light-eyed (based on both sexes), while Portuguese average in my survey is 49,35%.
    The Portuguese aren't greatly behind the French in terms of blondism - 15,12% compared to 16,31%.
    Portugal is a land of great rufosity and I had noticed this on pics (especially summer ones) posted here, too. With an average of 6,12%, it ''dethrones'' the leader in my surveys England (5,6%). Italian light eyes value of 45,72% is slightly below that of the Atlantic country, while the difference between the two in terms of blondism is more noticeable (Italians scored as 7,73% blond in my study).
    Your studies are laughable. For some countries (Germany) you counted light mixed eyes under light, for others (Croatia) you also counted evenly mixed, while for some (Serbia, Portugal, Bulgaria...) you counted even dark mixed eyes under "light eyes". You restrict and loosen your standards completely arbitrary. What's the point of doing these studies if you can't keep your standards consistent? Unless you want to lightwash or deliberately falsify your results?

  10. #120
    Alma portuguesa Damio de Gis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Just because you don't like what Hoyos Sainz study says about Spaniard eye colour does not mean it's incorrect. Sanchez Fernander study gives us almost the same results (16-17% blue and grey eyes) as well as the new study posted by sofiagris which also gives 16% blue and grey eyes.
    It's unbelievable reading you saying that, after this thread:

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...backed)/page59


    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Your studies are laughable. For some countries (Germany) you counted light mixed eyes under light, for others (Croatia) you also counted evenly mixed, while for some (Serbia, Portugal, Bulgaria...) you counted even dark mixed eyes under "light eyes". You restrict and loosen your standards completely arbitrary. What's the point of doing these studies if you can't keep your standards consistent? Unless you want to lightwash or deliberately falsify your results?
    Given what i've seen you doing with the Hoyos Sainz study, The Blade's study is as valid as whatever it is you're doing.

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