Catholic Poland bans abortion

[Not a Cop]

How about you focus on the argument as a whole and not how successful my hypothetical question was. Or is the fact you haven't replied to the rest of it indicative that you do not have a ready response?

Well in fact i haven't had a ready response to most of your statements, however the very late time at Saint-P lowers my cognitive abilities, so i will reply tomorrow. The interest of having a debate kept me enterntained, so thanks.

3) They're mostly going to abort some other way anyway. It's like criminalising drugs. It doesn't work very well. There were famous cases in the 60s of women who died from back-alley abortions, including young mothers.

Depends on what you mean under criminalising and drugs. Restrictive measurements on tobacoo and to a lesser degree alcohol worked very well in western world in last decades.

[Dr_Maul]

I am not advocating late-term abortions, unless, of course, the mother's life is at risk, or the fetus is not viable. That is a separate conversation. I'm glad you agree that in concept, forcing people who do not want to be parents to be parents is unwise.

My main problem with abortion is when it crosses the line from being a way to prevent a unwise pregnancy to ending a premature life. Anything after the soonest possible point isn’t ‘forcing a rape baby’, rather ending a life in my opinion. Of course there are exceptions such as the mothers life but beyond that if it is not at a specific time then it is the mother’s fault for not doing that earlier.

[Faklon]

...

In the other thread you were boasting of having uprotected sex, did something happen to you?

As for individual choices, it is an illusion. Everything that happens in the world will eventually influence you and the decision of a middle classy slut to have an abortion because she wanted to taste raw cock shows lack of self-constraint, irresponsibility and weakness. It doesn't hurt only her unborn child but also the child of her ethical neighbour as it will learn to grow up in a degenerated unethical society.

Diseases have always been a part of life, it's the ethics that keep changing. We live in an hypothetical civilized world with all the means to interconnect and influence but we can not fight the disease Corona because we prefer individual choices.

[Longbowman]

Well in fact i haven't had a ready response to most of your statements, however the very late time at Saint-P lowers my cognitive abilities, so i will reply tomorrow. The interest of having a debate kept me enterntained, so thanks.

Depends on what you mean under criminalising and drugs. Restrictive measurements on tobacoo and to a lesser degree alcohol worked very well in western world in last decades.

Discouraging smoking through education (and taxes) worked. Criminalising did not, partially because it was never criminalised, of course. Famously, criminalising alcohol had disastrous consequences.

In the other thread you were boasting of having uprotected sex, did something happen to you?

If you're asking if any woman I've been with has had an abortion, to the best of my knowledge, the answer is no. But try to stay away from ad-hominems, it undermines your 'argument,' such as it is.

As for individual choices, it is an illusion. Everything that happens in the world will eventually influence you and the decision of a middle classy slut to have an abortion because she wanted to taste raw cock shows lack of self-constraint, irresponsibility and weakness. It doesn't hurt only her unborn child but also the child of her ethical neighbour as it will learn to grow up in a degenerated unethical society.

Ah yes, the fascist's rationale, classic. Anyhow, this is a stupid reply. First, because we are not discussing 'classy sluts,' but rather, rape and disability. But, I'll bite, and I'll pretend I was making the argument you're pretending I'm making, just to show you how retarded your argument is (not the perspective, just your, specific, argument). Reasoning:

1) most people who have abortions aren't 'classy, middle-class sluts' or whatever, but even if they were
2) I [could, and do] disagree with your premise that it would be unethical to abort such a child. Which is, of course, the entire fucking argument. Even ignoring this, your meta approach is stupid regardless, because
3) everything is nuanced and I could (and would) easily make a counter-point about a sliding scale of restriction of freedom and/or sensible approaches to reproductive politics or whatever, rather than limiting it to your personal view on morality

You're the second person to basically scream 'IT'S ABOUT MORALS, I DON'T NEED FACTS.' You're not a 12 year old libertarian on Youtube, I know you can do better, please try harder. This entire post boils down to 'I think this is immoral.' OK, and?

Diseases have always been a part of life, it's the ethics that keep changing. We live in an hypothetical civilized world with all the means to interconnect and influence but we can not fight the disease Corona because we prefer individual choices.

I don't even see what you're trying to say here.

[Ethel]

ok, abortions will continue to happen anyway
main difference is that now poor women will risk their lives trying illegal methods and the rich will bribe doctors or travel to another country and vacuum their fetuses out in fancy clinics

[Faklon]

Ah yes, the fascist's rationale.

This is a stupid reply.

1) most people who have abortions aren't 'classy, middle-class sluts' or whatever, but even so
2) I disagree with your premise that it would be unethical to abort such a child. Which is, of course, the entire fucking argument. Even ignoring this, your meta approach is stupid regardless, because
3) everything is nuanced and I could (and would) easily make a counter-point about a sliding scale of restriction of freedom and/or sensible approaches to reproductive politics or whatever, rather than limiting it to your personal view on morality

You're the second person to basically scream 'IT'S ABOUT MORALS, I DON'T NEED FACTS.' You're not a 12 year old libertarian on Youtube, I know you can do better, please try harder.

Call casuality a fascist rationale (\m/) or whatever, it is right. Everything in the world is interconnected and a society that seeks getaways instead of fighting and accept disease is rotten at its core and breeds weaklings. Say that abortion is not unethical, irresponsibility (for me) remains unethical and if I face a woman that aborted a child because it prevented her from having her idolized lifestyle, I should be critical of her.

I don't even see what you're trying to say here.

Individualism is not fitted for lockdown because people don't influence each other to act responsibly, Corona makes more and more numbers. It's a similar rhetoric with pro-choice abortion, irresponsibility and individualism breeds at least as much disease as down-syndrome does.

[Faklon]

ok, abortions will continue to happen anyway
main difference is that now poor women will risk their lives trying illegal methods and the rich will bribe doctors or travel to another country and vacuum their fetuses out in fancy clinics

Is this what is happening in Brazil?

[Not a Cop]

I have limited interest in getting down this rabbit hole. The information exists, a google or bing search will provide you with papers, I don't care whether or not you accept it.

Morals are based on facts, or supposed facts, that's a silly rebuttal and you know it. For example, you are providing a 'fact' in defence of your argument right now. My main point is threefold:

1) I don't care, because I need there to be the freedom for me (and my partner) to get an abortion if I need it. If some other people game the system, I don't give a shit. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
3) They're mostly going to abort some other way anyway. It's like criminalising drugs. It doesn't work very well. There were famous cases in the 60s of women who died from back-alley abortions, including young mothers.

Fundamentally it's not like a fetus is the same as a baby. If I dropped a petri dish with a fetus and a baby and you could only jump to save one you'd save the baby. I do not wish to risk the happiness and safety of actual members of my society for the sake of potential ones.

But as for Poland, or any other country I don't live in, I don't give a fuck.

1) Freedom is a buzzword or if you preffer an illusion, there is a shitload of things you can't do in UK, but thats a part of social contract you take to live in society polygyny f.e. is banned in UK as in all European countries, yet there is hardly any basis for this other than tradition or morals.

2) First is that nobody forces women to keep that child, secondly amount of rape or disabled babies that could've been born is so low that care system or adoption would cover it. We can even set a subsidies for this kind of babies to support mothers.

3) That is exactly why i said that abortion is a realm of morals more than facts, if you treat abortion as a murder there is absoluetly no basis for this claim, as you can also say that regular murders will happen anyway, so why do people have to risk their life and cause pain to others using knifes, hammers and other barbaric methods, when there are far more civilised ways available?

All in all my position on abortion doesn't really include severly disabled and rape fetuses, although rapes are much more justified as conception wasn't a direct result of actions of a mother. Though rape babies are far more valueable to society so as i said some sort of compensation may be set, especially considering the low amount of conceptions.

[Not a Cop]

Discouraging smoking through education (and taxes) worked. Criminalising did not, partially because it was never criminalised, of course. Famously, criminalising alcohol had disastrous consequences.

You're basing your opinion of alcohol ban on american prohibition, while it's not the only expience, Russian prohibition f.e. had many positive effects:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1...80%D0%B8%D1%8F

[Rethel]

'Just carry a child to term for 9 months, I'm sure someone will want to adopt your brain-dead child lmfao. It's no big deal. Anyhow most aborted fetuses aren't unhealthy so for some reason this means you can't abort the ones that are.'

Nothing different than:
- diagnosis is wrong (heathy child) and is born brainless
- pregnancy is normal or non-checked, and child is born dead
- child is born normally, but soon have disease and dies
- child is born normal and become heavily sick being 3 months old, 3 years old, 30 years old.

By the logic of your statement, such people should be also terminated.

The reason why you and others say what they say is comfortability. The same as would be in other cases,
but because antifa et consortes does not promote such things yet, then ye do not promote them... yet.