Busting anthropological myths part 1: North Caucasus people(Chechens, and others) are European/white

[XenophobicPrussian]

the two genes most relevant to lighter skin colour in Europe originated in the Middle East and the Caucasus about 22,000 to 28,000 years ago, and were carried to Anatolia by about 8,500 years ago, where their carriers became associated with the Neolithic Revolution. CHG / pre-CHG seems to be the population that mutated a gene for lighter skin that then got to Europeans from them so European light skin seems to have appeared somewhere near the southwestern shores of the Caspian Sea

[XenophobicPrussian]

You didn't bust any myths. Literally no one on anthroforums thinks this, except like maybe 1-2 weird Georgians I've seen on here. IRL sure, but who gives a fuck about that, there are people that think black people are just white people with literal black skin.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Many people I conversated before knew chechens and other are not europeans. But Armenia and Georgia were not very sure, so now its confirmed they are not europeans?

[Hajimurad]

Trouble is right. It's no a coincidence Russians call us a Black people! That's a real Caucasian singing hymn of Ichkeria!

[Hajimurad]

This will be part of a series of anthropological myths that exist in people's minds, whether on these forums or real life that I will seek to demolish with facts and logic.

Caucasus people never be considered European. All old-school anthropologists considered us as aborigines of West Asia. They considered us White not because of relatedness to Europeans but because we are part of Caucasoid race.

Simply false, the various people of the Caucasus have diversity within themselves but none can be considered European or clustering anywhere near Europeans. In fact, they are decidedly closer to West Asians than anything else. Their phenotypes also appear closer to West Asians, albeit lighter than most.

Agree. Before invasions of Indo-Europeans and Semites West Asia was populated by our relatives (Hurrians, Urartians, Hattians). And because of it Armenian, Kurd and Assyrian are close to Georgian than to Albanian, Pamiri and Yemeni.

Unlike Europeans, all Caucasus groups have substantial ancestry from CHG(Caucasus Hunter Gatherers), a type of ancestry that is largely alien to Europe. Some CHG-like admixture reached Europe via Indo-European groups who contained it, but for the most part it's quite distinct even from that.

Yes

Some groups like Chechens and North Ossetians have a decent chunk of Indo European Yamnaya ancestry which is roughly similar to the amount you see in southern European groups(about 30%). But they also have a ton of CHG on top of it. This makes them distinct. Other groups like Georgians lack any Indo-European ancestry whatsoever and are even heavier on CHG.

Our Yamnaya ancestry came from Sarmatians who came from Asia.

Russians living near the Volga are still closer to British Isles people than they are to Chechens in Grozny.

Yes. Russians/Ukrainians are recent settlers while our ancestors lived in Caucasus from the time immemorial.

[Synapsid]

The skin tone of Magdelanians/El miron cluster are a mystery and 26,000 year old Dzudzuana sample were never really tested for pigmentation SNPs so Nuzrat got that one out his arse. Do you think SLC24A existed common west eurasian HG 20,000 years ago? I know we lack accurate skin gene predictions for WHG but they seem to have processed IRF4 genes which linked TYR expression, basically melanocyte master regulator MITF binds to IRF4 which recruit the transcription factor activator protein 2α (TFAP2A), expression of IRF4 seems to activate expression of the gene encoding the pigmentation enzyme Tyrosinase (TYR). I don't buy into WHG being dark, I mean UHG+Basal Anatolian hunter Gatherer is lighter than WHG? Seems fishy to me

[XenophobicPrussian]

The skin tone of Magdelanians/El miron cluster are a mystery and 26,000 year old Dzudzuana sample were never really tested for pigmentation SNPs so Nuzrat got that one out his arse. Do you think SLC24A existed common west eurasian HG 20,000 years ago? I know we lack accurate skin gene predictions for WHG but they seem to have processed IRF4 genes which linked TYR expression, basically melanocyte master regulator MITF binds to IRF4 which recruit the transcription factor activator protein 2α (TFAP2A), expression of IRF4 seems to activate expression of the gene encoding the pigmentation enzyme Tyrosinase (TYR). I don't buy into WHG being dark, I mean UHG+Basal Anatolian hunter Gatherer is lighter than WHG? Seems fishy to me

Yes, I think SLC24A existed in SE Euro or Ukrainian late paleo HGs, likely earlier than 20k years ago, ala this UHG you mention, although they wouldn't have been like Dzudzuana(Dzudzuana is already like Anatolian farmers/Anatolian HG, a mix of unknown Euro HG and something more southern, and without any ANE). Not much else can really explain the presence of SLC24A in all of Afontova Gora, Anatolian Farmers, Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers(technically EHG is supposed to have a small bit of CHG, but Afontova Gora and certain groups of EEFs aren't, at all. They have 0.), etc.

[Synapsid]

Yes, I think SLC24A existed in SE Euro or Ukrainian late paleo HGs, likely earlier than 20k years ago, ala this UHG you mention, although they wouldn't have been like Dzudzuana(Dzudzuana is already like Anatolian farmers/Anatolian HG, a mix of unknown Euro HG and something more southern, and without any ANE). Not much else can really explain the presence of SLC24A in all of Afontova Gora, Anatolian Farmers, Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers(technically EHG is supposed to have a small bit of CHG, but Afontova Gora and certain groups of EEFs aren't, at all. They have 0.), etc.

If that is the case, we will have to look back to the Kostenki-Sunghir-Buran Kaya days

[Synapsid]

Caucasus people never be considered European. All old-school anthropologists considered us as aborigines of West Asia. They considered us White not because of relatedness to Europeans but because we are part of Caucasoid race.

Agree. Before invasions of Indo-Europeans and Semites West Asia was populated by our relatives (Hurrians, Urartians, Hattians). And because of it Armenian, Kurd and Assyrian are close to Georgian than to Albanian, Pamiri and Yemeni.

Yes

Our Yamnaya ancestry came from Sarmatians who came from Asia.


Yes. Russians/Ukrainians are recent settlers while our ancestors lived in Caucasus from the time immemorial.

Yamnaya ancestry in Caucasus predates Sarmatians or written history in the region.

[War Chef]

Yamnaya ancestry in Caucasus predates Sarmatians or written history in the region.

It's a mix of Sarmatians and Maykop.
In Maykop was a lot of Yamnaya traders.

Think of them as Russians in the Caucasus, such as these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Azerbaijan