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Thread: Eye and hair colour distribution among 1272 Germans + general comment

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immanenz View Post
    Thats not what i really meant- there were East Aftican skulls who happen to have almost identical metrical data not being even genetically related to them.
    Yamnaya were EHG/ CHG mixes, Corded ware has already some Pre- IE in them. I think Yamnaya had quite a range of skull size (robust long heads, brachy Proto Europids and a few more gracile types)
    Yeah, people are too drawn into this romantic notion of old cultures being represented by 'pure' races.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian View Post
    I mean, it's not a "doubt" lol. There's not even any "latitude" excuse here, as South Germany is further north than Hungary(and much higher in altitude as well), and obviously Germany as a whole is much more northern in latitude.

    Even if we look at old anthropological data, let's use Popov for example(who Blade has used to back up his arguments before, although I'm seeing different numbers from Popov than he claims), who's one of the few who had his own numbers for various parts of Europe, not just one region. He had no number for Hungarians that I can find, but we can use another nation Blade also used to calculate the difference in ratio, and what should be if the ratios were the same.

    Popov's light eyes statistics - (male/female):
    1000+ Bulgarians from Sofia - 45%/34%
    1000+ Bulgarians from Pleven - 44%/33%
    100+ Bulgarians from Blagoevgrad - 43%/35%
    100+ Bulgarians from Vraca - 42%/37%
    100+ Bulgarians from Stara Zagora - 42%/37%
    100+ Bulgarians from Varna - 40%/32%
    1000+ Bulgarians from Plovdiv - 40%/36%
    100+ Bulgarians from Burgas - 39%/27%
    100+ Bulgarians from Ruse - 35%/41%
    53 Pomak Bulgarians from Razlog - 43%
    91 Christian Bulgarians from Razlog - 42%
    154 Pomak Bulgarians from Velingrad - 63%
    66 Christian Bulgarians from Velingrad - 59%
    31 Pomak Bulgarians from Asenovgrad - 58%
    234 Christian Bulgarians from Asenovgrad - 41%
    119 Pomak Bulgarians from Smolyan - 40%
    76 Christian Bulgarians from Smolyan - 37%
    Romanians - 35%
    Romanians from Transylvania - 42%/41%
    Romanians from Moldavia - 46%/34%
    Romanians from Bucovina - 49%/41%
    Romanians from Moldavia - 73%
    Gagauzes - 67%
    Macedonians - 40%/36%
    Swiss - 73%
    Germans from Baden - 87%
    Germans from Swabia - 89%
    Swedes - 95%
    Norwegians - 97%
    Italians - 31%
    Japanese - 9%
    Kyrgyz - 5%

    Let's say Popov's Bulgarian male light eye average is 43%(it isn't, it's lower, but I'm weighing the higher sample ones more), while The Blade has 55.44% for Bulgarian males. The Blade's number is 1.28x higher, so we can reasonably conclude if Popov studied Hungarians, based on Blade's Hungarian number of 65.14%, Popov's Hungarian light eyed number would be 50.89%.

    For the sake of argument, let's allow Popov's "Germans from Baden" to represent all of Germany(even though realistically the German average would be much higher than the South German average). The difference between 50.89% and 87%, meaning Popov would have Germans as 1.7x lighter eyed than Hungarians, while Blade has German males(68.71% vs 65.14%) only 1.05x lighter eyed than Hungarian males. I haven't seen any results like that, ever, even the studies like Coon's which use different authors for different countries who definitely all had different definitions, no one has had Germany and Hungary that close. The hair color stats are even less believable, again, no anthropologist has ever suggested Hungary being blonder than Southern Germany, ever.

    Popov literally had Baden/Swabian Germans blonder than Ukrainians and Russians, Badeners approaching Latvian numbers, both of which will undoubtably be as blonde or blonder than Germany as a whole even, if/when Blade does those countries:

    Popov's blond hair statistics all according to Fisher scale - (male/female):
    100+ Bulgarians from Ruse - 12%/14%
    100+ Bulgarians from Stara Zagora - 12/17%
    100+ Bulgarians from Burgas - 13%/13%
    100+ Bulgarians from Vraca - 14%/20%
    1000+ Bulgarians from Pleven - 14%/17%
    100+ Bulgarians from Varna - 14%/15%
    100+ Bulgarians from Blagoevgrad - 17%/17%
    1000+ Bulgarians from Sofia - 18%/18%
    1000+ Bulgarians from Plovdiv - 20%/13%
    53 Pomak Bulgarians from Razlog - 23%
    91 Christian Bulgarians from Razlog - 18%
    154 Pomak Bulgarians from Velingrad - 18%
    66 Christian Bulgarians from Velingrad - 21%
    31 Pomak Bulgarians from Asenovgrad - 39%
    234 Christian Bulgarians from Asenovgrad - 26%
    119 Pomak Bulgarians from Smolyan - 23%
    76 Christian Bulgarians from Smolyan - 9%
    Romanians from Transylvania - 0.0%/2%
    Romanians - 3%
    Romanians from Bucovina - 10%/7%
    Romanians from Moldavia - 11%
    Romanians from Moldavia - 12%/14%
    Japanese - <1%
    Gagauzes - 2%
    Armenians - 5%
    Macedonians - 12%/12%
    Serbs - 16%/16%
    Russians - 27%/31%
    Swiss - 37%
    Germans from Swabia - 37%
    Germans from Baden - 42%
    Ukrainians - 35%
    Great Russians - 36%
    Lettonians - 45%
    Swedes - 69%
    Norwegians - 74%
    Austria is 63,9% light eyed according to Schimmer (sample size of 540K), Vienna is 65,7% light eyed according to Beddoe (sample size of 1700), Germany-Austria border (German side) is 66,6% light eyed according to Virchow and Austrian parliament is 67,9% light eyed according to my personal study (275 samples). That's four studies that all fit well together. We know Virchow and Beddoe counted only dark hazel under dark, while light hazel under "gray" or "intermediate" just like The Blade. So we can safely conclude Austria is around 64% light eyed if we use this criteria. I doubt Hungary is on Austrian level of eye pigmentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercomputer View Post
    Austria is 63,9% light eyed according to Schimmer (sample size of 540K), Vienna is 65,7% light eyed according to Beddoe (sample size of 1700), Germany-Austria border (German side) is 66,6% light eyed according to Virchow and Austrian parliament is 67,9% light eyed according to my personal study (275 samples). That's four studies that all fit well together. We know Virchow and Beddoe counted only dark hazel under dark, while light hazel under "gray" or "intermediate" just like The Blade. So we can safely conclude Austria is around 64% light eyed if we use this criteria. I doubt Hungary is on Austrian level of eye pigmentation.
    No Austria as a whole is within the 55% - 60% light eyes range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrion View Post
    No Austria as a whole is within the 55% - 60% light eyes range.
    Sources? If you take only "real" light eyes, it's around 50-55% (TNH, Beddoe, Weisbach), but if you count light hazel it's 64%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    My guess is that arrival of Celtic languages during iron age in British Isles from west-central Europe brought more southernly continental component compared to extremely northern Bell Beakers that settled Isles in the bronze age. However actual Celtic blood (in sense of Hallstatt-La Tene) in Irish and Brits is not big but minor, they are still in majority of original beaker stock, especially Irish and other insular Celts.

    Than Germanic invasions brought additional northern blood. English have additional southern input from Romans (at least in the south) and possibly even Normans to a minor degree. Normans were probably mixed with French to some degree when they conquered England. But those ancestries are minor in Isles anyway.
    I agree with a lot of this but the Irish have a lot of Norman surnames and Normans very much took on Irish ways. Normans in Ireland intermingled with the native Irish possibly more than they did with the ordinary English. They appear to have mostly mixed with the English upper class but in Ireland they mixed with the native clan families. Even someone like Grace O'Malley had a Norman husband at one time. The Normans in Ireland were called the Old English and many kept their Catholic religion. Anyway I think Norman history in Ireland is different than what happened in England. Some very common Irish surnames have a Norman origin i.e. Burke, Lynch, Fitzgerald, Butler, Walsh etc. There is also that famous expression that the Normans became "more Irish than the Irish themselves."



    The Normans that came to Ireland were Cambro-Normans so would most likely have had Welsh and English blood. It don't know whether they would ever be able to genetically tell what the footprint of the Normans were in Ireland or in Britain. It would be great if that was possible.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_I...ish_themselves

    The Morrigan (also Mórrigan or Morrigu) is one of the most mysterious figures in Irish mythology.
    The name Morrigan means 'phantom queen' (or 'great queen') and describes a Goddess from old Ireland that was very associated with war, destiny, fate and death.
    She was a shape-shifter and frequently appeared as a black crow, an ominous sign for those who saw her prior to battle. Legend has it that the Morrigan was in fact a triad of sisters, often named as Badb, Macha and Nemain, while the Morrigan is also remembered as the triad of the land Goddesses Ériu, Banba and Fódla.


    http://www.ireland-information.com/i...sh-legend.html

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