Eye and hair colour distribution among 1272 Germans + general comment

[Jana]

She seems to have quite a general Northern look, Brunn with some Nordid mixture, she could easily pass in Lancashire or somewhere around there but would look more out of place in the southern counties and probably most of Europe including Norway.

Agree, she looks British. Maybe pass for Belgian/French too, not sure. But not a Scandi look for sure.

[Oliver109]

Orkney people: study finds strong pre-Viking DNA


A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK.

According to the data, those of Celtic ancestry in Scotland and Cornwall are more similar to the English than they are to other Celtic groups.

The study also describes distinct genetic differences across the UK, which reflect regional identities.

Read BBC Science correspondent Pallab Ghosh on the study here.

As just about anyone in Orkney will tell you, Orcadians are different.

This study underlines that, albeit not in the way they might think.

The authors divided the UK's genetic variations into 17 major clusters. They found the biggest level of variation separated the samples in Orkney from all of the rest.

The Orcadian branch of the tree splits into three distinct clusters, with the island of Westray qualifying for one of its own.

As you might expect, the influence of Norse DNA is strong in all three. But not as strong as you might think.

The paper says Norwegian DNA has contributed to about 25% of Orcadian DNA. What's more, the estimated dates of that contribution coincide with the historical record: it's when the Vikings started to turn their attention to the islands. The authors say that's further validation of their methods.

But the evidence suggests that, for all the cultural power of the islands' Norse heritage, the genetic legacy of Pictish and other pre-Viking DNA remains strong.

Just as important, though, is what this study does not tell us.

We're dealing here with relatively small variations in DNA. They're useful in helping us find major demographic changes through human history. They can also help avoid pitfalls in modern disease studies. But this is not a "racial" map of the UK.

For a start, the sample looked only at middle aged Caucasians, all four of whose grandparents were born within 50 miles of each other. That means, as the authors point out, it looks at genes which were established before the major population movements of 20th century Britain.

There may be no single "Celtic gene" but many scholars have long suggested that Celtic identity is - like Britishness - a cultural construct.

Most of us are happily free to choose the identities we want rather than have one forced upon us. And we can choose multiple identities - European, UK, British, Scottish, Nordic and Orcadian, say - and express them all at the same time if we want.

Meanwhile every one of us remains 100% human.

[lei.talk]

I have an Irish name yet different genetic tests and oracles have told me my single closest population is different depending on the test -- here are some examples they have given me : Dutch, English, Cornish, Orcadian, Scottish, Norwegian, Irish etc... these genetic ancestry calculators and tests are pseudo-scientific bullshit man.

[Peter Parker]

Could it be that Northeastern Germans have some exotic or more foreign ancient admixture?

The grandfather of a good friend of mine came from the Mecklenburg area. However, he had dark brown hair, dark eyebrows, blue eyes and looked almost Northern Italian (a bit Dinarid-influenced), so not typically Northern German or Scandinavian at all.

I've actually expected North Germans (especially from the Baltic region) to be very light, so what could his ancestry be? Does it come from Slavic admixture?

[Supercomputer]

Results for Blue (~40%) as well as light eyes (~70%) fit very well with Virchow's data. Blond hair for men also isn't far from what XP found. Although I doubt the difference between Germans and Hungarians for light eyes is really that small (65% vs 71%). Hungarians supposedly have a lot o green and mixed eyes and that could cause confusion in categorization especially when the image quality isn't ideal, sometimes they are categorized under hazel, sometimes light, that's why the disparity in my opinion.

[The Blade]

Results for Blue (~40%) as well as light eyes (~70%) fit very well with Virchow's data. Blond hair for men also isn't far from what XP found. Although I doubt the difference between Germans and Hungarians for light eyes is really that small (65% vs 71%). Hungarians supposedly have a lot o green and mixed eyes and that could cause confusion in categorization especially when the image quality isn't ideal, sometimes they are categorized under hazel, sometimes light, that's why the disparity in my opinion.

I work with high quality photos and see several of each person before making a final categorization.
However, it's true that some states have higher prevalence of a certain eye colour than others. Earlier in my surveys I noted the high green eyes frequency among French women and the high occurrence of grey eyes among Dutch ones, for instance.

[Immanenz]

She seems to have quite a general Northern look, Brunn with some Nordid mixture, she could easily pass in Lancashire or somewhere around there but would look more out of place in the southern counties and probably most of Europe including Norway.

Isnt her head way too small for Brunn? Neither does she look very rugged either. Brunn is basically a codeword for looking British to you...

[Supercomputer]

I work with high quality photos and see several of each person before making a final categorization.
However, it's true that some states have higher prevalence of a certain eye colour than others. Earlier in my surveys I noted the high green eyes frequency among French women and the high occurrence of grey eyes among Dutch ones, for instance.

How many eyes would you consider light in this table of Hungarians? There are a lot of borderline cases and I had some trouble myself in weather I would put certain eyes under green or hazel. Finally I came up with only 40% light eyes (14 out of 35). Other eyes just have too much mixture in them (around half of the iris) for me to consider as light. Since there is such a huge disparity between my results of this table and what you found for Hungary, I'm interested in weather you have different standards as me, or weather you think this table (of only 35 samples) is unrepresentative for entire country (this school is from Tatabanya in Northern Hungary).

screen grab

Edit: You have to download the image to fully zoom.

[The Blade]

How many eyes would you consider light in this table of Hungarians? There are a lot of borderline cases and I had some trouble myself in weather I would put certain eyes under green or hazel. Finally I came up with only 40% light eyes (14 out of 35). Other eyes just have too much mixture in them (around half of the iris) for me to consider as light. Since there is such a huge disparity between my results of this table and what you found for Hungary, I'm interested in weather you have different standards as me, or weather you think this table (of only 35 samples) is unrepresentative for entire country (this school is from Tatabanya in Northern Hungary).

screen grab

You asked me the same thing about this same particular photo in my respective thread about Hungarians. My exact answer was:
''On a 1-8 scale - 18.
However, this is a small group compared to my sample.''
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...studied)/page2
And, indeed a sample of 734 ''weighs'' more in comparison. Photo you posted in Hungarian thread was of the same people but had better resolution.
56,42% of men in my survey fit colours 1-6 on the Martin-Schultz scale which is almost identical to the 56% Metodi Popov found among male Hungarians using basically the same criterion. - this was another thing I mentioned. I don't own Popov's book but member Theuser does. I quoted data he had posted on a Bulgarian forum.
And, by the way, Supercomputer, you can check image you posted in my thread about Hungarians, since it allowed much better zooming (this variant you now posted is basically useless). Your exact words were:
''How many of these Hungarians would you classify as light eyed? I counted 17/35 or 48,5%''
Basically you considered 17 of these people as light-eyed and my rate was 18/35.
However, I prefer googling people one by one - better photos appear.
Also, the reason I prefer using people who are past 20 years of age is that eye colour changes during puberty (sometimes even later in fact) in some cases. I have seen other sources confirming it but here is one:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9152135/
''Most individuals achieve stable eye color by 6 years of age. However, a subpopulation of 10% to 15% of white subjects have changes in eye color throughout adolescence and adulthood in the eye color range that can be expected to reflect changes in iridial melanin content or distribution. These data also suggest that such changes in eye color, or the propensity to such changes, may be genetically determined.''
I can confirm this from personal experience. My eyes were more typically green until mid teens and then they became quite greyer and are of intermediate grey/green colour nowadays (my eye colour is 6 on the Martin-Schultz scale - grey/green with yellow/brown spots).

[The Blade]

Double post.